Kung Fu and UFC

[SimonM]

LOL @ Rfonner!!!

Apparently you haven't been following SimonM's blog on the other thread!

Juan

Yup, I'm a commie-friendly socialist from the great white north, happily planted in the PRC and loving it.

[warriormonk]

Mixed Martial Arts has caused martial arts to evolve more in the last 10 years than it has in the past couple hundred years. You are now able to find what works in a fight and what doesnt. The reason that most TMA's dont participate in mma is that they are not well rounded enough to to be totally effective. You may be the best **** TKD guy that ever lived and if you cant stop at least one take down from a olypis caliber wrestler than you are taken out of your comfort zone and all your TKD is up the creek. On the flip side of that You can be the best **** jiu-jitsu guy that has ever walked the earth and if you cant defend a boxers combination you are S.O.L.

The whole point of this long rambling is that Mixed Martial Arts is a style unto it own a complete system of standing clich and ground work that you can find. No it cant defend you from a gun or a knife but neither can 99% percentile of all the TMA's. But if you take the best TMA artist alive today in the whole world and you put Wanderlie Silva across form him and you put them in a ring hell put them on the street and i know who my money is going to be on.

Just my two cents.

[Wong Fei Hong]

In response to the last post, there is a guy called lee murray he competed in the ufc once but was a top contender in uk mma competitions, and unfortunately he was attacked whilst outside a night club in london by a group of 4 guys they attacked him and whilst the scuffle was occuring, he was stabbed and was in near critical condition for a few days, thankfully he is better now.
Not to point and go HA HA told you so , but just like how most kung fu guys are surprised when faced with the way a boxer doesnt move the way you expect compared to your kf sparring mates, i believe the same thing happened here, for someone who is used to grappling and hitting without blocking, when faced with a knife none of this works if you dont know how to control the arm and use a simple kick.
Also ive seen people do some 2vs1 sparring, and as you dont want to hit the guy so hard his ass starts bleeding, a lot of times the 2 guys close in and take the other guy down, now no amount of bjj mma , being helio gracie or kimura is gonna save you when your trying to fight 1 guy on the ground with another kicking your head in, or even 2 guys on the floor at once.
Maybe if your gene lebell he once had a cover of a book of his where he ties up 2 guys on the floor one wiht arm locks and the other with leg locks

[Ford Prefect]

You're so right. MMA doesn't help much against 4 knife-wielding thugs. Good point.

[Shaolinlueb]

You're so right. MMA doesn't help much against 4 knife-wielding thugs. Good point.

neither does kung fu for all these so called master out here on the board.

[Wong Fei Hong]

My point wasnt that a kf guy could or couldnt do it, but being paid a years wages for a normal person, and having half the population of people who watch mma know who you are, my point was i wouldn't have expected this to occur. Wether to be able to avoid the fight or incapacitate the opponents. You expect more from a world class fighter.

Also depends how you look at it, you are standing outside a club and 4 average guys come up to you a scuffle starts and you get knived.

Or 4 240 pound guys all armed with knives each grabbed one of his limbs and proceeded to incapacitate him and then knifed him.

Also what i find funny is how most ppl wet themselves over how dangerous kung fu is , and good on the street, and how mma wouldnt work on the street, but when this occurs, ppl turn around and say but if it was kung fu you wouldnt be able to defend against 4 attackers.

Hmmmm so why do most ppl practise kung fu since now weve changed the subject to not only , kung fu isnt good for mma competitions as its too deadly, BUT also TO: it wouldnt work on the street against more than one opponent ??? is it because it looks good in movies and you find inner peace .
Zen knitting anyone ?

In all seriousness if i couldnt defend myself on the street against more than one attacker, then i would sign up at the closest sport fighting gym overnight. Cause if kf doesnt work in mma and doesnt work on the street then i think we have a slight problem.

[Ford Prefect]

Wow. .......

[FatherDog]

My point wasnt that a kf guy could or couldnt do it, but being paid a years wages for a normal person, and having half the population of people who watch mma know who you are, my point was i wouldn't have expected this to occur.

Then you are stupid and naive. No matter how good you are, if you face four guys with knives, odds are good you'll be visiting the hospital.

[Jason Martell]

Come on!
If a kung fu person can get into a position where they could maim another competitor, then surely they could show enough restraint to follow a ruleset! What difference is it between the skills needed to land a strike to the chin, or a poke to the eyes? It's amazing that in this day and age we still have people who think that a kung fu practitioner can't compete because thier stuff is "too dangerous".

If you're trying to suggest that punching, kicking, and submissions are low level and that there's much easier ways to defeat another person, then you must be a representative for the NRA. A gun would be the easy path.
Otherwise, it takes skill to step into a ring and fight another trained competitor. More so, it provides an opportunity to hone skills that surely will come into play should a person ever truly need to fight for thier life. Also, it demands a level of fitness that surpasses the "CMA for health" crowd's standards.

I'm not trying to advocate MMA, the UFC, or professional level fighting, but some competitive experience or at the very least some hard contact sparring with other martial artists of varying backgorunds is a logical, if not essential part of anyone's training.

The whole point isn't that they can't obey the rules of the ring. It's that they can't win without breaking those rules. It puts them at a disadvantage, because they train for a different situation. The UFC is like full contact friendly sparring. Half of the Jujitsu moves you see in there, the guy winning is totally setting himself up for an eye gouge attack.

[Jason Martell]

In response to the last post, there is a guy called lee murray he competed in the ufc once but was a top contender in uk mma competitions, and unfortunately he was attacked whilst outside a night club in london by a group of 4 guys they attacked him and whilst the scuffle was occuring, he was stabbed and was in near critical condition for a few days, thankfully he is better now.
Not to point and go HA HA told you so , but just like how most kung fu guys are surprised when faced with the way a boxer doesnt move the way you expect compared to your kf sparring mates, i believe the same thing happened here, for someone who is used to grappling and hitting without blocking, when faced with a knife none of this works if you dont know how to control the arm and use a simple kick.
Also ive seen people do some 2vs1 sparring, and as you dont want to hit the guy so hard his ass starts bleeding, a lot of times the 2 guys close in and take the other guy down, now no amount of bjj mma , being helio gracie or kimura is gonna save you when your trying to fight 1 guy on the ground with another kicking your head in, or even 2 guys on the floor at once.
Maybe if your gene lebell he once had a cover of a book of his where he ties up 2 guys on the floor one wiht arm locks and the other with leg locks

I agree with everything you said there. And in my own experience I studied TKD a while. I'm not even a blcakbelt, but anyways, I eventually started sparring my friends, who were had not training at all. Some of them were pretty good street fighters though. But anyways I totally felt the confusion of not being used to fighting a different kind of fighter I wasn't used to. I felt totally taken by surprise by the fact, that they would get in so close. But I kept doing it once a week with those guys, and eventually I was able to win against all of them, except for my one friend who was a very good street fighter, and another one of my friends who has like a foot and a half taller than me.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Jason im glad you know what i mean, cause i would get that too when sparring diff stylists, but at the same time there were some people who hadnt trained who you would be like omg this person is so normal! I coudln't dream of sparring him he probably couldnt even put up resistance i might hurt him with a look !

Then you are stupid and naive. No matter how good you are, if you face four guys with knives, odds are good you'll be visiting the hospital.

Thanks fatherdog no offence taken

My point here is that i believe that one way or another its not impossible to avoid disaster, firstly like i said i dont think it was 4 guys all with knives, plus we dont know the scenario,
if you have 4 guys who are just yobs coming up to you and you start a rough and tumble and someone pulls a knife its different from being surrounded by 4 trained or hard guys who all have knives.

Also my point is that in a kf school you learn things that, would help you other than just lets fight, awareness for one, if i saw 4 guys with knives coming up to me and i was standing outside a club i know for sure i wouldnt dive headfirst into them. I would look at my options and see what is happening around me where the bouncers are , maybe get back in the club etc

Lastly if you believe that 1 person taking on 4 is unbelievable, then i think we might as well scrap the whole concept of every martial art ever written and just stick to bodybuilding and bashing heads in. I know personally people who have been attacked by over 4 guys and got out in one piece both who did martial arts and who didnt.

[FatherDog]

My point here is that i believe that one way or another its not impossible to avoid disaster, firstly like i said i dont think it was 4 guys all with knives, plus we dont know the scenario,

Actually, those of us who actually paid attention to the news stories about it do know the scenario. A mass brawl broke out in the nightclub Murray was in. As he attempted to exit the club, he was set upon by four people and stabbed repeatedly in the chest. Two other club patrons were also knifed.

Also my point is that in a kf school you learn things that, would help you other than just lets fight, awareness for one,

I've never seen a kung fu kwoon that taught situational awareness worth a ****, frankly. Or, for that matter, a TKD dojang, karate dojo, or MMA gym. A very few JKD places I've seen have had situational awareness exercises; most weren't that good. If you want to learn awareness, take a police course for citizens.

if i saw 4 guys with knives coming up to me and i was standing outside a club i know for sure i wouldnt dive headfirst into them. I would look at my options and see what is happening around me where the bouncers are , maybe get back in the club etc

Maybe get back into the riot where two other people were knifed? Good plan.

Lastly if you believe that 1 person taking on 4 is unbelievable, then i think we might as well scrap the whole concept of every martial art ever written and just stick to bodybuilding and bashing heads in. I know personally people who have been attacked by over 4 guys and got out in one piece both who did martial arts and who didnt.

I never said that one person taking on four is unbelievable; I said that if one unarmed person faces four people with knives, odds are very good the one person will be going to the hospital, no matter what his training is. Even if he wins or escapes, this is true. To think otherwise is, as I said, stupid and naive.

[Wong Fei Hong]

The reason i said we dont know the scenario is because WE DONT, i dont know anyone who was there and everyone has a different story, i find it wrong to speculate on how he reacted because no-one knows how they would react.
Thats also why i said in my first post

my point was i wouldn't have expected this to occur. Wether to be able to avoid the fight or incapacitate the opponents. You expect more from a world class fighter.

I followed the story both in the sfuk forums where people who had visited him in hospital were posting, and from the newspapers.

this website quotes
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...9/ai_n15650724
that "Lee was trying to stop a fight between a group of men when he was stabbed. His two friends are still in hospital, but they are not in a bad way like Lee."]

http://www.tapper.tv/News/article/sid=70.html
Whereas the sun quotes "...the cage fighter stabbed at a page 3 party has an underworld contract on his head. Lee Murray 28, is said to have angered one of Britains leading gang families.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obje...name_page.html

About your awareness statement, im in shock that you have never visited a class of any of those lessons that didnt adress self defense and awareness.

Actually, those of us who actually paid attention to the news stories about it do know the scenario. A mass brawl broke out in the nightclub Murray was in.

I dont know what news stories you followed so well but all three of the above newspapers from the uk quote that it all happened outside the club.

As for your last statement i really dont know what to say, i think its such a specialised case, ive seen people i could arm with knives and i wouldnt be scared to go near them, and ive seen people who i would run a mile from without knife.

The point of the post is not an attack at ufc mma saying oh look they cant fight on the street, more of what if all the people who do trad for the street how would they have reacted.

[NeedsPractice]

Bottom line alot ( maybe most) kung fu people dont train for full contact matches
(the endurance, and the body conditioning to take hits and keep going).And they dont train to practice thier art under the given rules either. whether it be mma, ufc, k1 or muay thai.
It can be very hard to do good in something you have no preparation for.
Meaning having good striking and chin na/schaio chiao skills and being able to use them under pressure against a mma guy used to active resistance versus using your skills on somebody who is NOT expecting them ( self defense) and HOPEFULLY cant deal with them effectively.

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol seriously..... i dont think some people are gonna be satisfied till they see a kf practitioner toss his opponent across the ring with a wave of his arm.