OT: Terror Alerts are fake

[Christopher M]

The difference between Facism and Socialism?

Socialism is a category of sociopolitical systems; fascism is one instance in that category. You're falsely treating them like they're comparable concepts; this is called a category error.

Facism is the government coluding with capitalists to rule the people and enrich the ruling elite. Socialism is the people taking over the means of production to eliminate the capitalists and create a government that is responsible for the allocation of capital.

Firstly, you're simply wrong about fascism, which is a working class movement. Please read the references I supplied on these topics, as they cover this and related points, which is why I supplied them.

Secondly, you seem to be confused about the term 'capitalism' which has very different meanings in the socialist and liberal (capitalist) economic traditions. When Marx says the proletariat revolution replaces the capitalists, he is not talking about capitalism in the sense of the economic theory of capitalism. These are entirely different ideas where merely happen to use the same word.

Thirdly, you're missing the point: in both fascism and socialism, as you have defined them, you have the state control of the market. Whose revolution produces that system is entirely moot. Economic structures are defined by their structures, not by the individuals who happen to fill their administrative positions.

Both ends at the extreme are foolhardy and dangerous...

But, as just explained, they are not "both ends of the extreme" -- they're both essentially the same system. Where they vary is essentially on non-economic points (eg. the nationalist of fascism).

I think the general contention is that Bush is becoming more facist, as the countervalence from the socialist philosophy becomes weaker.

Since fascism is a type of socialism, this remark is nonsensical.

[cam]

An interesting read
www.lawrence.edu/sorg/objectivism/socfasc.html


On a sidenote
How many Vietnamese were killed in that little war?
2 million?
3 million?

[MonkeySlap Too]

I often argue that I am a 17th century liberal, but no one is educated enough to know what this means anymore - except maye Christopher. No slam, but when girls demand you read Ward Churchhill in order to get laid, I can see why so many men are brainwashed.

The concepts of personal liberty, self-reliance, pulling together in a crisis and not relying on a king, freedom to engage in trade, freedom to speak openly... these are things i cherish.

But - the various socialist models pull us right back to blindly following a 'dear leader.' It pays off the poor with substinence, while robbing them of thier will. A great example is welfare. Newt Gingrich forced Clinton's hand and passed welfare reform. The end reesult is a bunch of folks who either thought they could not, or simply would not found the moxie to fend for themselves so the state would have to kill that many grandmas less than previously in order to collect 'the fair share' of taxes. (of which 83.88% are paid by the top 25% of wage earners).

The Democrats long ago gave up the 'help the little guy, give him a fair shake' model and became closer to the National Socialist model. You have more uber rich funding the dems, they seek to remove liberty and pile confiscatory taxes on in order to create minimal state subsidies to pay off the poor and weak of mind. They have argued for surrender in the face of each of the great challenges we have faced since WW2 - and effectively surrendered Eastern europe to soviet domination - something the poles and czechs are still very angry about. (What happened to people loving socialism. Maybe we should talk to some Cubans - oh, they are too poor and not allowed to leave thier country...)

It's easy to simplify the opposition to some of the right's 'hot button' issues. None of which are that simple as either side presents them.

But we digress again:
1. Give me one example of a 'workers paradise' that did not turn to mass murder and improsonment of it's people
or
2. Did not impoverish the population
or
3. Where you had the freedom of concious to speak out against something you disagree with - without being thrown in the gulag.

You know we have a state-run economy right here in America that gives people free housing, free food, and free medical care. And just like sociaslist countries you can have only minimal personal property, and can only leave when you are allowed by the dear leader. And the people are desperate to escape and risk thier lives to do so.

What do we call this 'workers paradise?' We call them prisons.

Hey Simon, been to North Korea lately? Don't you wonder how your socialist brothers can let those people starve? Hmmm, who tries to send those poor starving citizens of a failed state... other socialists? hhmmm, no. Capitalists? The West? Well golly gee whillickers... Ward Churchhill never mentioned this one...

[MonkeySlap Too]

And how many more Vietnamese were murdered by the soviet state after we abandoned them? How many died desperatly trying to escape?

[MonkeySlap Too]

AP Newswire - 10/17/05

The Cuban Navy, utilizing the latest in socialized hi-tech row boats intercepted yet another band of U.S. boat people fleeing to get that free medical care from the state. "They tried to sneak in on a brand new Ocean Alexander cruiser. We set off our sirens, but they ignored us by turning up thier music louder with thier imperialist running dog sound system. My superior roll towel paper tube voice amplifier (sent to me by relatives in Miami, as I would never own such an imperialist thing as roll towel paper) did not get any response."

The pasengers of the 'ye olde good time' commented that when they saw the emaciated, poorly shaven men in the rowboats, that maybe 'they were out in the water a long time.'

"These Americans, they alays want to come here, eat our rice and bean rations, and try to join us on those lucky holidays when we have meat just like in the big hotels for fdreighners. They want to sit in a ruined mold infested hovel, use the communal bathrooms, and sing songs to our dear leader. Why don't they just get a dear leader of thier own?" Said Captain Jorge Pendejo.

The Ye Olde Good Time left the Navy with bottles of Rum, and returned to America "Where they don't even have socialized *cough* medicine. See this cough? In two more months I can see a physician. For Free!"