Shaolin Do and San Soo

[Invisible-fist]

I'm wondering why it is that Shaolin Do takes so much **** for wearing Japanese gis, when San Soo (which also wears gis) doesn't. Plus san soo has the added benefit of being "too deadly to spar."

[joedoe]

San Soo catches a lot of flack too. It's just that they don't have an army of students turn up here to argue about it all the time

[kwaichang]

I now and have trained in SD for approx 14 years I trained in WC, Hung Gar, and Tang Lang from 1971 -1981 we wore gis too unless it was hot then we wore T shirts but that did not change what we did : CMA . KC

[joedoe]

I honestly don't know why anyone cares.

[Shaolindoninja]

Sd used to has a flyer campain for the schools that Said "the ultimate and original martial art". It been a headache from there and the sda dropped it. The argument was if we the "original martial artist from shaolin why don't we wear robes and shave our heads to exactly like the shao lin monks. what that meant was that most of the martial arts have some kind of root in shaolin temple. so you should study the root of most martial arts.

[shadowlin]

I doubt seriously that the slogan you're quoting is either a) a quote, rather than a paraphrase based upon impression, or b) condoned by Shaolin-Do. I have never seen it, certainly we don't use it.

The reason for the flack is that people have no respect and are too lazy to really come and find out the truth. People younger than the school at which I go make criticisms and they don't even understand. All they do is repeat the same garbage they always hear on the internet.

[MasterKiller]

Actually, the flack is mostly based around the worship of Sin The' and the innacurate and wildly implausible stories that come from his "SDA" camp.

For example:

When your teacher tells you something, you should believe it. You should follow their advice almost blindly because they have been there before. Grandmaster The' is probably the only person in the world with a comprehensive knowledge of the Shaolin system. You should treat him in the same manner as you would treat the President of the United States or other world leader.

Puuh-lease.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress...

[Golden Tiger]

Actually, the flack is mostly based around the worship of Sin The' and the innacurate and wildly implausible stories that come from his "SDA" camp.

For example:



Puuh-lease.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress...

That quote has been played to death. I was written in a "student guide" back in '77 (I think, or was it '74) done by M. Sin's top student. It has somehow been incorporated into every other thing that SD does. It was one small paragraph in a 5 or 6 page paper.

Puuh-leazzzzeee is right

Now, carry on.....

[MasterKiller]

That quote has been played to death.

I concur. And yet, it remains.

[BlueTravesty]

I think the reason is because San Soo doesn't claim to be the true legitimate descendant from a highly venerable martial arts institution while at the same time doing very little that resembles what was done, and is still done at the same institution.

If San Soo claimed to be, say, the true legitimate branch of Gracie Jujitsu, and went on to claim that the Gracie Academy now just teaches performance art, then perhaps we'd have a better comparison. But as it stands, San Soo admits that what they do is different from most other MA, and in fact, embraces that. (Mind you, I don't know thing one about San Soo, I'm just going off what I've learned second-hand about that style via acquaintances.)

Btw, Invisible Fist, Silat also makes the "too deadly to spar claim."

[Judge Pen]

I know several teachers who feel that way about their students. They do not want them exploring other styles or cross-training. They expect this blind devotion. I don't agree with this, but I do think if you want to train in an art that you respect your teacher and discuss any other training you are doing or you wish to do to compliment yourself. If your teacher truly has a problem with that approach then you know it is time to find a new teacher.

[brothernumber9]

San Soo actually has argumentative evidence that it is a version of or perhaps even the original version of Choy Lay Fut, as there is arguable evidence or claims that the progenator of San Soo in the U.S. is the grandson or great grandson directly of Chan Heung, part of that stemming from "inside" students learning the system not as "San Soo" but as "Cai Li Fo" which is dialectic for Chay Lay Fut.

[kwaichang]

Many styles of martial arts can trace their origin to the temples in china. SD just claims to be from a master teacher of the fukien Shaolin Temple who happened to train at other existing temples. Many base their disbelief on the numbers of forms and their lack of knowledge of or of the disbelief that one person could "Master" all that the temples had to teach. Why is it so farfetched that a person who spent his life in the temples and practiced possibly 8-10 hours a day could do this.
There is a special about Houdini this W/E. He was arguably the greatest slight of hand and escape artist around. Why? He practiced and became all consumed by what he did. Why cant anyone who does the same master their Craft no matter how farfetched it seems.
Also some are gifted in certain aspects and therefore can master things easier. Since no one on this site, lived during that time frame and since no one really knows what the "original" forms looked like then why cant SD be from the Shaolin Temples of that era : or before. So you dont believe the stories of GMT just because you dont believe does not mean they arent true.
Some people dont believe Christ was the son of God. But Prove he wasnt. You cant prove or disprove it it is based on faith as any martial art is. Even the most simple things can be filled with truth. There is a saying Do not cast youir pearls before swine.
Some just cant appreciate what is there because they want to point out the bad or what they think is not true. Sorry for the log windedness of this post. KC

[brothernumber9]

Then what of other systems to have been allegedly from Fukien Shaolin? What about Gee Shim and the variants that allegedly spawned from him or any of the other fabled monks that escaped or left and spread systems of kung fu?

If we assume that there was indeed a southern Shaolin temple and that the SD decendant mastered all styles, why is it that SD does not have these other styles or even look like them in any distributed facet? Are all the other systems of the world that claim lineage to southern shaolin a bunch of liars and only SD is telling the truth. The logic tends to lead to the contrary.

[GeneChing]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that San Soo isn't as big as Shaolin-do. It was explained to me once by one of the upper Shaolin-do people that there was a huge split in Shaolin-do; it was in answer to a question about how many schools they had. Now this was several years ago when I had this discussion, but I recall the gist of it being that there were around a hundred or so schools that were still officially recognized, while there were another hundred or so 'rogue' schools - I'm probably way off on those numbers. Additionally, the name is a weird fusion - it should be Shaolin-Dao. Saying Shaolin-Do is akin to saying Shaolin Karate (it should be Shorin Karate). A more graphic example would be something like Mushu Spaghetti. Of course, I'm Californian, so we're used to hybrid cuisine like that, not that it matters much. We're all hybrids - it's the American way.

San Soo was much larger a few decades ago, but it's faded quite a bit. It was one of the earlier CMA-influenced styles, another hybrid. Anyway, again, maybe some one else can help me here, but are the characters for San Soo the same as the characters for San Shou? I've asked many San Soo people and none of them can read Chinese or know the meaning of their name. Now I find that very funny.