Shaolin-do teaching the SUPER SECRET invincible internal style

[Judge Pen]

Why do you think I said 'minority'? And put it in quotes, instead of saying just minority.

But until meth, most of the crime-ridden neighborhoods were 'minority' neighborhoods, and when I find crime-ridden neighborhoods now (meth and redneck rural America aside), they still tend to be 'minority' neighborhoods. 'Minorities' make up the majority of inmates in jails.

I'm not a racist, although it is much harder to communicate with people of other backgrounds and from other countries.

Anyways if you want to play the politically correct police, you'll be lost on me, because I do not buy into all that political correctness crap. I myself am a part 'minority' being part Native American, but I don't care if people insult whites, or call me a redneck or red-n*****, or half-blood, it makes no difference.

I'm not trying to be politically correct either. You are absolutely correct that the majority of inmates in jail are minorities (being black and Hispanic primarily). They also make up the majority of the poor in over-populated areas. Now one of the largest groups of minorities in America is Asian, but that group doesn't significantly contribute to the crime and incarceration statistics that you subscribe to. Why? Is it inherently because of their race? Nope, its because that group, for whatever reason, tends fall into a higher economic strata then other groups. Race has nothing to do with it. I'm sure that was different in American history when Asian, particularly Chinese, were used for cheap manual labor and, hence, poor and over-crowded.

If you speaking with blunt accuracy you should say that poor inner-city or trailer park red-necks cause most of the crime. White rednecks (of which I come from originally) included.

[neilhytholt]

I'm not trying to be politically correct either. You are absolutely correct that the majority of inmates in jail are minorities (being black and Hispanic primarily). They also make up the majority of the poor in over-populated areas. Now one of the largest groups of minorities in America is Asian, but that group doesn't significantly contribute to the crime and incarceration statistics that you subscribe to. Why? Is it inherently because of their race? Nope, its because that group, for whatever reason, tends fall into a higher economic strata then other groups. Race has nothing to do with it. I'm sure that was different in American history when Asian, particularly Chinese, were used for cheap manual labor and, hence, poor and over-crowded.

If you speaking with blunt accuracy you should say that poor inner-city or trailer park red-necks cause most of the crime. White rednecks (of which I come from originally) included.

No, I don't buy this at all. Poor != crime. White rednecks now are doing a lot of crime because of meth, but this didn't use to be the case.

Asian Americans started out as poor, as poor as slaves in the U.S., but they didn't wind up poor. Blacks were poor and were slaves, but while there was segregration and more oversight, crime rates were relatively equal to whites and the divorce rate was about the same as well. Native Americans were poor before the casinos, but you didn't see them doing crime like they have now with blacks and hispanics.

No, IMHO there is another component to this. I would term it socio-genetic rather than socio-economic. To say anymore would spark a firestorm.

[ninthdrunk]

I just got done with class, and wanted to know what other partner, or even multiple attacker other Shaolin Do schools use in their training. I've always been kinda baffled by the fact that we don't drill self-defense, ippons and street techniques more often than we do. I've started using them as multiple partner drills (we're working with five on one at this point) and I've started drilling the forms' applications for white up to brown in the same way.

Anyone else have any thoughts? JP? GT?


OH, and Ground monkey is great! I just got done drilling the heck out of sections one and two of the first road for about an hour and half...not straight, that would kill me. Man, that is one intense ab workout.

[Crushing Fist]

meth...










nasty stuff


i think its the eleventh plague of egypt






ninthdrunk- how are you doing your five on one drills?



things I like are:

random chin-na with the holds done strong

drilling aps from forms with a resisting partner

multiple opponent sparring... so far 3 on 1 is the most I've done, although if you count all the "respawns" that the opponents do in an average round its more like 30

I find that if 3 people attack in a coordinated and sustained fashion it can be very difficult to keep from evetually getting taken down.

luckily they usually end up acting more like the 3 stooges... but once they learn to work together, it gets tough.

I also like team sparring 2 on 2, 2 on 3 etc.

[BM2]

Most fighters appear to be complete idiots because they get taken down by low-level BJJ people because they have no takedown defense at all. Takedown defense is something that should be taught in the very early stages of martial arts practice. My teacher taught us takedown defense, because he assumed we would be fighting mostly people who had high school wrestling or football experience, in our first and second belts.

Suffice it to say that I see few to none of these techniques being used in MMA events, which is why I'm just scratching my head going, "WTF?" But most of that is because of the rules.

For example, when somebody's shooting in on you, 9 times out of 10, their head and neck are exposed, but in MMA you're not supposed to elbow the head or neck. You're not supposed to grab the head. When somebody's trying to get you into guard you're not supposed to strike their groin.

Basically the game is rigged.

Dude....I can't say much because I used to be like you. I thought I couldn't be taken down because I was too quick and had avoided being taken down before in class or being able to get right back up with no problem. Of course I was sparring with classmates who trying to sweep or trip me as they were strikers.
Go out on an open mat night and tell a Judo school or a BJJ school you want to practice your take down defense. Believe me or not, it is going to be a little different than you will expect.
The first UFCs were pretty much no eye poking, no biting and no fish hooking. There were strikes to the groin etc. If you don't see your techniques in MMA that would bother me in thinking that they may not work. Untill you go against a grappler you will not know. You can be shown how to swim but it isn't the same as jumping into the water and doing it.
Enough wasted time spent on this for me

[Kymus]

You make a good point BM. I've done some grappling, and while I think I'm fairly decent (key word: decent ), I've only fought strikers that knew beginner level grappling. I'd love to spar an intermediate or advanced level grappler (but none of them Judo guys; I'd rather be someone's pretzel than rag doll :P) and see how long it takes for me to get my ass whooped; it would be a great experience. That reminds me, a buddy of mine have been learning Jujitsu for a few years now, I'll have to give him a call.

[Judge Pen]

No, I don't buy this at all. Poor != crime. White rednecks now are doing a lot of crime because of meth, but this didn't use to be the case.

Asian Americans started out as poor, as poor as slaves in the U.S., but they didn't wind up poor. Blacks were poor and were slaves, but while there was segregration and more oversight, crime rates were relatively equal to whites and the divorce rate was about the same as well. Native Americans were poor before the casinos, but you didn't see them doing crime like they have now with blacks and hispanics.

No, IMHO there is another component to this. I would term it socio-genetic rather than socio-economic. To say anymore would spark a firestorm.

Learn to read my posts; I said poor and over-crowded. Native Americans were never really overcrowded. they stuck them on a reservation, sure, but there weren't a lot left to bump elbows.

Socio-genetic; so poor black people are more pre-disposed to commit crime than other races? You're a tool if you think so.

[Judge Pen]

9th drunk; Ippons and "street fighting" are great. Learn to shorten you angles and that will help the techniques be more applicable against more controlled attacks.

As far as multiple defense work, other than 2, 3 or 6 on one sparring, I haven't done much of that in SD (aside from a group of us working on applications in forms that have obvious multiple opponent applications). We have also done a "randori" type drill in class before; everyone in a circle with a number with one in the middle. You attack when your number is called etc. Just some ideas.

[Golden Tiger]

9th, in my opinion, the short drills are one the most important things we teach and yet, the most over looked. I think it is because its taught so early that some thing its not advanced enough. But I think that the foot work and body mechanics rock. If you practice the side stepping, then move to being evasive sans the block all together, it becomes excellent training for zero distance fighting. Master Hiang (strike me down) used to teach that even if you got hit, the twisting away from the strike would decrease the force. Now he mainly applied this to drunk boxing, but the principles are the same. As for the locks and other stuff contained within, they will prove very valuable in a clinch situation.


As for 1 on ? attackes...a class of 30 black belts (1st thru 6th) make a circle....bow....and have at it...punch and run mainly. Fun, yes. Good training..not really. It does teach you to not stay in one place very long though.

[sean_stonehart]

You're a tool if you think so.

He's a tool anyway...

[ninthdrunk]

Yeah, circle war is great....ahhh...

We've been surrounding the defender and we will just randomly call out street techniques and ippons. Last night was the first night we added the kata techniques. At this point, I'm just trying to get everyone used to getting attacked from various angles and how to use which attacks. If someone does the wrong technique, but succeeds in evading and countering, then that's alright for me! My hope is to find a way to increase the randomness and eventually no calls will be made, making it a little closer to reality in that you will be getting attacked from all angles, with a wide variety of attacks. Plus, I am always trying to find ways of adding application drills that make them a little more alive. This is a nice compliment to the controlled sparring we've done in the past, since it's even more controlled. We might be a long ways from my goals, but I'm stubborn and I run the school, so we'll stick with it. Already, the increased amount of understanding with ippons and street techniques is amazing. So, even if we don't find a way to simulate reality and make these drills do what I want them to do, I'm sure we will get SOMETHING out of it.


GT - as for us not practicing our lower stuff as much. I had that put into perspective for me when I realized that these were techniques Grandmaster sin had created for us. Man, if I can get a little more insight into his mind, I'll take it.

[lxtruong]

As for 1 on ? attackes...a class of 30 black belts (1st thru 6th) make a circle....bow....and have at it...punch and run mainly. Fun, yes. Good training..not really. It does teach you to not stay in one place very long though.

I hate circle war. I think that while it's marginally fun, it's pretty worthless. 2-on-1 sparring is the most that I think you can really get anything out of. Circle war denegrates to a bunch of running around.

[ninthdrunk]

I think that circle seems worthless because we don't do it enough. I'm sure that if you did circle war on a regular basis, your awareness/perception would increase dramatically. Would your level of skill go up otherwise? Probably not. I mean, whatever strikes you do in one-on-one are probably going to be the same techniques you use in multiple-partner sparring. If you don't have a lot in your bag of tricks for one situation, the same will probably be true of other situations. So, I think circle war would be better for us if we did it more often, and if we combined that with a focus on applying forms in more "lively" situations.

[neilhytholt]

Learn to read my posts; I said poor and over-crowded. Native Americans were never really overcrowded. they stuck them on a reservation, sure, but there weren't a lot left to bump elbows.

Socio-genetic; so poor black people are more pre-disposed to commit crime than other races? You're a tool if you think so.

Dude, look up the definition of socio-genetic. Anyhow, whatever.

[lxtruong]

So, I think circle war would be better for us if we did it more often, and if we combined that with a focus on applying forms in more "lively" situations.

Well, you can say that about a lot of things. The reality about it is that our time is limited and I think that it's not really worthwhile to focus on things that will produce only limited results over the long term. If you compiled a list of all the different types of training that would result in X improvement over Y time, it's a really long list. Do any of us really spend as much time as we should on the basic punches and kicks? Sufficient cardio? Old material? New material? Meditation? Weapons? Ambidexterity? One-on-one sparring? 2-on-1 sparring? Sparring against different styles/sizes/skills? The list quickly blows up. So you have to pick those things that you get the most benefit out of in the mid and long term. I don't think that the benefits of "brawl" style training are all that great (unless you're planning on picking fights in bars). If we had infinite time sure, but who has that?