Shaolin-do teaching the SUPER SECRET invincible internal style

[Judge Pen]

From Brad's link: Among its attributes HUA style is also said to have Five Animals but different form Shaolin. They are: Tiger, Dragon, Leopard, Monkey and Eagle.

I know that my teacher wrote about these attributes in our Hua style in IKF and BB. (Blasphemy to mention those publications here).

[Brad]

Now days, when your grandmaster "teaches something out", does he take the time to make sure someone knows the material inside and out before it becomes part of another school's curriculum, or does he just do the occasional group seminar?

and totally off topic...

does anyone know what style of Hsing I it is we have? from what I've read it sounds like its hebei but I'm just guessing here. Some things I've read/been told recently makes it seem that we got our Hsing I from the same source as our Pa Kua.

What source is that? Anyway, I've seen your "linkage" form before in a book before, but I can't remember which one... Li Tian Ji's skill of xingyi quan maybe? I'm not sure how similar the forms between the different xingyi groups are though.

[Judge Pen]

Now days, when your grandmaster "teaches something out", does he take the time to make sure someone knows the material inside and out before it becomes part of another school's curriculum, or does he just do the occasional group seminar?

I don't know how it is with other schools, but here in Tennessee GM The' come in a few days earlier and works with my teachers on the form before he teaches it as a seminar here (assuming the form is new to them as well; sometimes they already have the form that he is going to teach). He makes sure that they have it down (at least as well as you can get it in a few days of practice) before he teaches the seminar. My teachers will then drill it a review it with the people that took the seminar later.

[Brad]

BTW, just something I've been curious about, any of you know how old Sin The is now?

[Judge Pen]

63? He's getting up there. Not as spry as he used to be, but he did almost all of the moves in the last Ground Monkey seminar save the shoot-through and the kip-up. I was impressed; that form really stresses your core body muscles. He's also alot more flexible than me, but that's not saying much.

[Crushing Fist]

very interesting JP


the video they call "Hua Chuan 4 2 Man" at the link you posted is the same as our Hua 2 man #2, again with obvious differences in certain moves.

so yeah, neil if you still want to see video of our hua click on those, the differences are minor style points.

on another unrelated topic, I just started learning the Tiger-Crane set (yes very different from the Huas I've been doing almost exclusively, but it keeps me on my toes) who knows how this set compares with say the Hung Gar version for instance?

[Judge Pen]

very interesting JP


the video they call "Hua Chuan 4 2 Man" at the link you posted is the same as our Hua 2 man #2, again with obvious differences in certain moves.

so yeah, neil if you still want to see video of our hua click on those, the differences are minor style points.

on another unrelated topic, I just started learning the Tiger-Crane set (yes very different from the Huas I've been doing almost exclusively, but it keeps me on my toes) who knows how this set compares with say the Hung Gar version for instance?

I haven't learned the second 2 man set to really compare, but it looks to be the same.

Tiger-Crane: There's a lot of versions of this form inside Hung-Gar and in other styles. I've seen a few that were pretty-much the same. The trouble is that most people in SD don't play it correctly (especially the first part in the horse stance). PM me for details.

[neilhytholt]

very interesting JP


the video they call "Hua Chuan 4 2 Man" at the link you posted is the same as our Hua 2 man #2, again with obvious differences in certain moves.

so yeah, neil if you still want to see video of our hua click on those, the differences are minor style points.

on another unrelated topic, I just started learning the Tiger-Crane set (yes very different from the Huas I've been doing almost exclusively, but it keeps me on my toes) who knows how this set compares with say the Hung Gar version for instance?

Okay, seems reasonable. A lot of emphasis on more acrobatic maneuvers and counters.

I wouldn't really consider that a post black-belt or post black-sash form, however.

Thanks for the link!

[Crushing Fist]

What source is that?

Jiang Rong Qiao

I've only just recently been given info on this and still haven't read his book...

but the info I was given had a bit that described his Hsing I and it sounded exactly like ours. His Classical Pa Kua is exactly what we do so it would make sense that he was the source for both...

I don't know, just guessing

do you know about this B? not brad different B...

[Judge Pen]

I wouldn't really consider that a post black-belt or post black-sash form, however.

Why not? The 3rd Road is the shortest of the 4 Hua forms taught. The others are at least 2 minutes in length a piece and very difficult to do them correctly. Lots of very low to very high transitions. Lots of distance to be covered. Even in the other schools that teach these forms, they seem to come along later in their curriculum.

[Judge Pen]

Jiang Rong Qiao

His Classical Pa Kua is exactly what we do.

Yep, I have his PaKua book and aside from some minor variations on placement of the arms during the a palm change or two, its the same form.

[neilhytholt]

Why not? The 3rd Road is the shortest of the 4 Hua forms taught. The others are at least 2 minutes in length a piece and very difficult to do them correctly. Lots of very low to very high transitions. Lots of distance to be covered. Even in the other schools that teach these forms, they seem to come along later in their curriculum.

Well all those are very basic techniques. It is long but I wouldn't consider that a post black-belt form.

To clarify a bit, I guess I'd consider bare-handed techniques and 2-person fighting such as that, basic weapons such as spear, staff (classical 18) and things like that, basic requirements for a black sash.

After that, primarily weapon vs. weapon or unarmed vs. weapon.

[Judge Pen]

Well all those are very basic techniques. It is long but I wouldn't consider that a post black-belt form.

Ok, then SD is a very basic style. Maybe I should just start teaching Hua to people that have been training for a year instead of building them up 8 years first. And this is coming from a guy who talked about the thousands of applications from Pi Chuan alone. Isn't Pi Chuan basic? The point is the technique from the form, not the form itself.

[Crushing Fist]

neil-

what do you consider advanced techniques?


I don't know many beginners who can pull off a 540 back sweep or the infamous "inside crescent-catch the foot-jump land in a lotus (half lotus in my case) - forward roll into a double jump spin cresent kick land in a low reverse stance" technique...


just sayin'

[Judge Pen]

To clarify a bit, I guess I'd consider bare-handed techniques and 2-person fighting such as that, basic weapons such as spear, staff (classical 18) and things like that, basic requirements for a black sash.

After that, primarily weapon vs. weapon or unarmed vs. weapon.

Ok, that makes a bit more sense (if that is your perspective), but don't most "forms based styles" continue to teach advanced empty hand forms at the upper levels? We do teach weapon v weapon two man sets and applications for empty-hand versus weapon.

As far as weapons, we start out with staff, then single short-stick, then broadsword, then sai, then Kwan Dao, then spear. After that it is jian, double hooks, double dao, and chain-whip.