Shaolin-do teaching the SUPER SECRET invincible internal style

[Brad]

Not really.

[neilhytholt]

I guess they didn't teach silk reeling or push-hands in my longfist class. **** them.

[Brad]

Apples and oranges. Just because one style doesn't have anothers specific training method, it doesn't make it more "beginer". Xingyi people don't do Wing Chun's chi sao drills... doesn't make wing chun more advanced.

[neilhytholt]

Apples and oranges. Just because one style doesn't have anothers specific training method, it doesn't make it more "beginer". Xingyi people don't do Wing Chun's chi sao drills... doesn't make wing chun more advanced.

No, because research has shown the base form for taiji is long fist, hasn't it? Like Jarek's on china from the inside has an article that talks about that.

[Brad]

Of course you do realize taiji quan used to be called chang quan, don't you?

[neilhytholt]

Of course you do realize taiji quan used to be called chang quan, don't you?

The base form for taiji is supposedly from long fist. But do you really think taiji is just long fist? If so, then there's not much more point in this discussion. I think the taiji people would argue that long fist doesn't train push-hands or in the Chen case silk-reeling. Are there long fist lineages that do?

[Brad]

Your logic is faulty. Is Sun style more advanced than Chen, Yang, and Wu styles? Following your train of thought it would be. And though I didn't say taiji quan and chang quan are the same thing, some taiji quan could certainly be considered an offshoot of chang quan or be called chang quan itself. Taiji quan is a relatively recent name. When Chen style was developed it wasn't called "Chen style Taiji Quan". That didn't happen until much much later.

BTW, there really isn't any need to act the way you just did. If you continue down that line of behaviour rather than act like a muture adult, then you're right, there really isn't much point in having this conversation with you.

[Brad]

Gah! You added to your post while I was replying

I think the taiji people would argue that long fist doesn't train push-hands or in the Chen case silk-reeling. Are there long fist lineages that do?

Do a web search on a chang quan style called Mei Hua Quan (Plum Flower Fist) for starters. I'd find a good link for you myself, but I have to go see a movie with my parents.

[neilhytholt]

Gah! You added to your post while I was replying


Do a web search on a chang quan style called Mei Hua Quan (Plum Flower Fist) for starters. I'd find a good link for you myself, but I have to go see a movie with my parents.

Well I'm an a**, or couldn't you tell?

[neilhytholt]

Do you know of any good non-PRC vids of Mei Hua Quan? (I'm a little tired of buying VCDs from China that are basically useless.)

[Golden Tiger]

Do you know of any good non-PRC vids of Mei Hua Quan? (I'm a little tired of buying VCDs from China that are basically useless.)

Having the complete set of "Junk n' the Trunk" vol 1-15 won't make you a great lover....just like videos of MA forms won't make you a better fighter. Get out there and find real people to learn with...

[Judge Pen]

Having the complete set of "Junk n' the Trunk" vol 1-15 won't make you a great lover

Well sh!t. I wasted $250 bucks! Back tot he drawing board. . . . .

[Crushing Fist]

so I was walking the dog and thinking about this (long fist, not junk in the trunk) and I realized... DOH!... just like that.

One of the very first things we learn in SD is none other than Long Fist


not a long form, but basic long fist techniques

we call it Luohan Shortforms, and they are the same stances, kicks, strikes, and such that are in Long Fist.

this is about 1/3 of the beginner material

we also do "sparring techniques" which are medium to close range fighting techniques, and Chin-na which are of course stand up grappling, joint manipulation, close range fighting techniques. then there are some two man fighting technique drills and a few beginner animal style long forms and weapons.


Then at brown belt level there are the two Long Fist-ish forms called "China Hands"

Does anyone know where these come from? They have all the trademarks of being in the "Long Fist" category.


So there it is, longfist is spread throughout our curriculum and increases in difficulty level as one might expect.

We don't just jump into Hua Chuan cold, there is a lot of foundation material for it.

[Brad]

Does anyone know where these come from? They have all the trademarks of being in the "Long Fist" category.

Got any vids?

[Golden Tiger]

Got any vids?

Are we back on Junk 'n the Trunk or SD's stuff? :-)


The forms in question are "Lien U Chang" and "Che Chien" (5 directional palm and Interconnecting Fist, respectively).

I have heard the "china hand" reference to them and others before but I am not quiet sure where it came from. Master Sin used to refer to most of the forms as china hand # ? and so on. Perhaps thats the origin of the naming or perhpas they are part of a china hand group. I never really wonder about it until now.

As for vids, its taught fairly early and most if not all brown belts do them in tournaments so someone should have one out there somewhere.