Shaolin-do teaching the SUPER SECRET invincible internal style

[MonkeySlap Too]

This quote seemed interesting to me:
"Modern Day Chung Yen Martial Arts
Current Chung Yen Shaolin Grandmaster, Hiang Kwang Thè, (1948- ) was born in Bandung, Indonesia and began his martial arts training at age 8. Master Thè was taught by several masters who studied at the Shaolin Temples in China including his maternal grandfather, Ie Chang Ming.

Grandmaster Ie trained Master Thè in several internal systems, awarding him with special recognition medallions for his internal training, including the name "Liu Fo Su" or "6th Sense Warrior." From Master Liu Su Peng, Master Thè learned the entire 18 form Tai Peng or "Great Bird" fighting system including earning special medallions for developing the Bird system forms into actual fighting applications."

Sooo... the Tai Peng style was not originally for fighting?

[godzillakungfu]

I have been googling on Master Hiang (Sin's brother) and I must say he appears to be the real deal. Apparently brother Sin Kwang The studied under their grandfather, while Hiang Kwang The studied under four masters with the guidance of the grandfather. This would explain why Hiang seems to teach some material that Sin does not. Also, Hiang is very open about the fact that his style took a lot from Indonesian/Japanese influences, he doesn't try to hide that at all.

See if the way back machine has his old website. Hiang has changed his website to fit his needs. On his very first website the history was almost exactly the same as GMS. The differnce being he was awarded the title of Grand Master not Sin. Also, GMS was never mentioned on his old website as Hiang isn't on Sin's websites.

[Jarhead101]

This quote seemed interesting to me:
"Modern Day Chung Yen Martial Arts
Current Chung Yen Shaolin Grandmaster, Hiang Kwang Thè, (1948- ) was born in Bandung, Indonesia and began his martial arts training at age 8. Master Thè was taught by several masters who studied at the Shaolin Temples in China including his maternal grandfather, Ie Chang Ming.

Grandmaster Ie trained Master Thè in several internal systems, awarding him with special recognition medallions for his internal training, including the name "Liu Fo Su" or "6th Sense Warrior." From Master Liu Su Peng, Master Thè learned the entire 18 form Tai Peng or "Great Bird" fighting system including earning special medallions for developing the Bird system forms into actual fighting applications."

Sooo... the Tai Peng style was not originally for fighting?

Well, the bird forms were actually my favorite out of everything I learned/saw. Very unique and the fighting applications were easy to see as well. It's cool that Hiang is teaching them all out.

OK, yes there's a BIG uproar over Sin The teaching out Meteor Fist, but I bet that even JP would show up to learn the Golden Snake This is supposed to be Sin The's specialty, but of course it's not being taught out

[hitman142002]

I am your basic "karate-man" on these forums to do like Bruce said- absorb what is useful. With this thread, I think I may have found out why Bruce Lee decided to completely skip out on all the "traditional" Chinese styles. I just read through 8 pages of argument, speculation, history, insult and awe...all concerning a single form.
If you would like an "outsider's" opinion- and even if you wouldn't- this all seems a little far-fetched to me. However, if this teacher is all he is supposed to be, why not take it at face value and learn what you do not currently know? If you learn even a single technique, or variation of a technique, that is useful and furthers your training, isn't it worth it? What level of imperfection are you willing to settle for?
The problem I have is that this super secret form exists at all. If I were a senior student, I think I would almost be insulted that I was not being taught everything I should know, or COULD know. Especially if it was something that a white belt could learn and be trusted with having that knowledge.
Finally, is it common practice to be shown a form only once before you must rely on your memory to repeat it until you KNOW the form? How often do you practice incorrectly before you are shown that you have been screwing up for a year??
You may commence to berating me now...

[SimonM]

The problem I have is that this super secret form exists at all. If I were a senior student, I think I would almost be insulted that I was not being taught everything I should know, or COULD know. Especially if it was something that a white belt could learn and be trusted with having that knowledge.

Quite a few styles do not have "secret" forms.

Finally, is it common practice to be shown a form only once before you must rely on your memory to repeat it until you KNOW the form? How often do you practice incorrectly before you are shown that you have been screwing up for a year??
You may commence to berating me now...

No need to fear berating over asking questions. No it is not common practice. However as you have gathered there is a lot of controversy surrounding the legitimacy of SD.

[Scott R. Brown]

Me a bully??? lol that the best one yet.

It was an example of how to handle idiots, fools, bullies, harrassers, argumentative types, etc. As usual you missed the point!

[Golden Tiger]

It was an example of how to handle idiots, fools, bullies, harrassers, argumentative types, etc. As usual you missed the point!

If I (and apparently others since you seem to have to explain a lot post-post) missed the implied meaning, perhaps you are having trouble getting the point across to the simple minds on here.

[Golden Tiger]

Apparently brother Sin Kwang The studied under their grandfather

Only if he was adopted be him in the mid 80's...many years after Ie died. For as long as I can remember (circa 1976) there was never a reference made to Ie as being the grandfather by either of them.

Sooo... the Tai Peng style was not originally for fighting?

If you ask me, all its good for is hurting your legs and blowing knees....but that just my opinion

OK, yes there's a BIG uproar over Sin The teaching out Meteor Fist, but I bet that even JP would show up to learn the Golden Snake This is supposed to be Sin The's specialty, but of course it's not being taught out

Yet......

I am still amazed that Meteor Fist is causing this much hoopla on here. The general concensus here is that SD and all its parts suck so why should anyone other than the SD care? To you all its just more crap to add to our outhouse. Don't worry, when I learn it, I promise not to unleash its fury on any of you....well one perhaps.

[Judge Pen]

jarhead, if I remember a previous post, you also liked the yellow sash tiger form (Fei Hu) and still practiced it after leaving SD.

Tai Pang and fighting: I'm not sure what that comment on Hiang's site means (and I'm not in his camp to where I can ask him). My guess is that since Hinag specialzed in that system, he broke down the system to pull out several applications that were not taught. That's not uncommon. Master Nance has broken down all the short form and pulled out applications that are "there" but not as apparant. He teaches a seminar on his "Application Theory" that is pretty good.

Back to Tai Pang, it's not one of my favorite either, but it is a very unique and complete system. SD is full of unique systems in addition to the material that they teach that is well known by others.

Short form: similar to Tam Tui in theory, application and purpose. I've been told that it's even more similar to 108 Lo Han style; however, I've never had the opportuntiy to compare short form to 108 Lo Han so I can't really comment.

Fei Hu: A tiger form that is unique to SD as far as I can tell.

Tai Pang--already discussed;

Lo Han Chien (ch'uan): A mystery form in some respects. It carries the name Lo Han, but has some seven star/moneky footwork and is often described within the system as a sister form to mantis. GT may be able to elaborate on the history of this form.

SanNjie: An internal form that shares the principles of Oikinawan SanChien which reportedly came for fujian provicen anyway.

"Shaolin Birds" A southern system (at least in my opinion on the footwork and applications. Very adaptable to fighting. Unique foorwork, theory, and principles. Not my favorite forms, but much of what I have adopted in my own fighting style have come from these forms.

China Hand forms: I've seen some forms that a very similar from other sources, but not these excat forms. They are "mini-longfist" forms that are seen as sister forms to the golden tiger system (two of the golden tiger forms have been taught out and they both have a northern feel to them as well).

Anyway, most of the material under black is vbery unique to SD.

[Scott R. Brown]

If I (and apparently others since you seem to have to explain a lot post-post) missed the implied meaning, perhaps you are having trouble getting the point across to the simple minds on here.

Hi Golden Tiger,

Most likely it is just you!

When I am succinct you cannot understand the point. When I explain the thought in detail you cannot understand the point! It is time to consider the problem most likely lies with you!

The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem. Congratulations on having the courage to admit to yourself and everyone else your condition. I encourage you to seek professional help to resolve this issue! If I may be of any help to you please feel free to ask!!

[themeecer]

GT .. you hit the nail on the head there. Some people here are obsessed with Shaolin-do. I am in the system and we have detractors on here that get info before I do. You all must be constantly scanning the web for SD related material. It is great to have groupies.

And yes .. Tai Peng can be murder on the old body. I was practicing this on a cobblestone courtyard when I was at UK, in a light rain. Actually I was unwisely "showing off" to a guy whose teacher had left our system, gave it a new name, and continued teaching. His looked horrible ... I could hardly recognize the form. So I stand up there .. bow ... do that first jump .. and attempt to land in a bird stance. I use the word attempt because that isn't exactly what happened. My right leg went north and my left leg went south. I'm not exactly sure what I did to my glutes but they still cause me problems to this day.

And by durn .. I am excited to learn Liu Hsing. I have heard about it for 22 years and now I am finally going to learn it. If that upsets you then I'm sorry.

[Golden Tiger]

Hi Golden Tiger,

I encourage you to seek professional help to resolve this issue! If I may be of any help to you please feel free to ask!!

I would ask you for help Scotty, but your just a nurse. I think I need a professional.

[Brad]

My first "kungfu" teacher had a Golden Tiger form... I wonder if he stole it from Shaolin-Do? He did go to Kentucky every year

[Radhnoti]

chud - "I have been googling on Master Hiang (Sin's brother) and I must say he appears to be the real deal."

Well, you might be interested to hear that the brothers taught together for many years. Maybe a decade?

Brad - "My first "kungfu" teacher had a Golden Tiger form... I wonder if he stole it from Shaolin-Do?"

It's surprising how often (in KY anyway) people take shaolin-do forms and don't admit that's where they got it. I've heard of an aikido guy who took the shaolin-do basic (first) staff form and claimed he got it from an ancient master on a trip to China researching the roots of his art! Not a low-key teacher around these parts either...he teaches a lot of law enforcement personnel.

GT - "For as long as I can remember (circa 1976) there was never a reference made to Ie as being the grandfather by either of them. "

I've seen a lot of evidence (most second-hand...as I'm Mr. Nobody in Nowhere, KY) that seems to indicate GM Ie IS the The' brothers maternal grandfather. I don't think it hurts GM Sin's credibility (though it does hurt the "I had to work so hard to be accepted" stories), in fact I think it bolsters it. Chinese teachers are famous for only passing the heart of their system to family. I've even heard (again, like everything I hear second-hand) that when pressed about who's going to be the next SD GM, GM Sin says, "My grandson." Again, GT is a lot closer to the source than me...but I don't see any great benefit for M. Hiang lying, and they've released documents and translations that are pretty compelling on this issue.

[Judge Pen]

My first "kungfu" teacher had a Golden Tiger form... I wonder if he stole it from Shaolin-Do? He did go to Kentucky every year

I'll show you my Golden Tiger Form if you show me yours. Serioulsy, the Golden Tiger Form has a long-fist feel to it, but I can assure you it did not come from Ohio. It was learned in Indonesia fairly recently (well 12-15 years ago).