Shaolin-do teaching the SUPER SECRET invincible internal style

[Scott R. Brown]

Have you ever seen Xing-yi in action? Of course, agression is not the intended principle behind the art, but the result is nothing else!Juan

Yes, aggression is evident in all properly practiced external AND internal arts. If the purpose is combat there is certainly aggression produced as a physically manifested aspect. I am not refering to the external aspect, but the internal mind set! When aggression is manifest in the mind, one loses the ability to generate maximal internal power and the ability to apply it with proper efficiency and effectiveness!

[Juan Alvarez]

"... there are more than just three internal styles (xing yi, bagua and taiji) there's styles like bajiquan and mizong that express themselves as an internal art to some degree."

Agreed! It is a generalisation that the three main internal style are Taiji quan, Bagua Zhang and Xing-yi. As I understand it, the three styles were reunited under the "Internal styles" banner by Cheng Ting Hua (Bagua school), Liu De Guan (Taiji school) and Li Cun Yi and Liu Wei Xiang (Xing-yi school). They called the family "Nei Jia Quan" not realizing that there was another style with that name all ready. Since the original Nei Jian Quan had some historical connection with WuDang and Zhang San Feng, the newly formed internal family was wrongfully associated with them. (All this info is taken from Dan Miller's in the english edition of Sun Lu Tang's book on The Study of Form-Mind Boxing). So, to me, this seems to be yet another marketing scheme trying to sell the Meteor Fist Form as Taiji's, Bagua's and Xing-yi's unknown little sister art... Then again, I might be mistaking and I would really be interested to have more info on this form when and if you learn it

Juan

[Judge Pen]

this seems to be yet another marketing scheme trying to sell the Meteor Fist Form as Taiji's, Bagua's and Xing-yi's unknown little sister art... Then again, I might be mistaking and I would really be interested to have more info on this form when and if you learn it

Well I think a couple of things may be going on. One, Taiji, xing-yi and Ba Gua are the three main internal styles taught in SD too (all of these have more than one form taught in SD) but we also have independant internal forms and qi gong sets that are taught. So labeling Meteor fist as the 4th internal system is accurate in that it is the 4th internal system under the umbrella of SD. Second, most people are familiar with the Nei Jian classificaitions and this distinguishes meteor fist from that in a way that most american martial artists can easily understand. Many of the people the notice is intended to reach do not have an extensive background in the internal arts. Our first internal set, if you will, isn't taught until at least a year into the system unless you take a seperate tai chi class which some schools offer.

[Juan Alvarez]

From that point of view, it is understood. Thank you for your clarification!

Juan

[GuSpeed]

Those videos of Shaolin-DO is the most BS sh*t I've ever seen!!

That sh*t a joke right? I wanna say that's not kung fu, but it has some kung fu in it. It's really crappy no offense. And if you wanna tell me to shut up, then kick my ass and impress me. Otherwise I'm not impress and I'm sitting here laughing!

I can't believe people are fool enough to fall for this sh*t

[MasterKiller]

Those videos of Shaolin-DO is the most BS sh*t I've ever seen!!

That sh*t a joke right? I wanna say that's not kung fu, but it has some kung fu in it. It's really crappy no offense. And if you wanna tell me to shut up, then kick my ass and impress me. Otherwise I'm not impress and I'm sitting here laughing!

I can't believe people are fool enough to fall for this sh*t

******! I'm tire of hearing people saying oh my style is better than yours and stuff. Well guess what? Duke it out and find out.... On top of that people keep on talkin about forms and shaolin do this and that...

Well do your form and record it on video and post it on the net. I have yet to see people really put their forms for other martial artist to critique. I'm working on getting a camera to do the recording so I can post my forms up so people can see my style.

I'm not trying to be as ASS but really people talk so much about forms better than that guy. Well do your form and post it and someone else post their forms and compare.

EASY

[Judge Pen]

Some interesting results from googleing "meteor fist"

http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Liu_Shing_Ch'uan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Shing_Ch%27uan

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...php/t-868.html

Interesting (especially the last link to another KFO thread). Any Hung Gar players no more about Liu Shing? I have no idea where these internet encylopedias get their information so there references mean little. I did find refarences to raining fist or metero fist as techniques in specific styles (namely long fist). Anyone know of this technique?

[Golden Tiger]

This is so silly. The form in question is not being taught for 2 freaking years, why all the worry about it.

The form is nothing new. It was discussed in the book he wrote that was talked about to death on the other forum.

I have been aware of this form since the early 80's. If he made it up, at least he had plenty of time to perfect it.

If he held a seminar on properly wiping your butt, he could count on at least 100 people. He is not teaching this one as a marketing ploy.

We bought him a used Nissan Altima, not a caddy, because his car was falling apart.

He is one of the least money hungry people I know. Stays in the cheapest hotel in town, used to drive a wreck and also used to train and teach 8 to 10 hours a day....a lot of time for free.

Scott R. Brown talks way too much. Remember succinct???

I think I am going to have to retire from here..you all are going to give me an aneurysm...or a tumor...or an ulcer for sure.

[MasterKiller]

I think I am going to have to retire from here..you all are going to give me an aneurysm...or a tumor...or an ulcer for sure.

Ulcers are caused by bacteria, not stress.

[godzillakungfu]

The above was the story I heard. The caddy story that pops up is usually attributed to OYD/CMQ.

One thing when did it become the 4th internal art. Tai Chi, Xingyi, Bagua are the other three correct? Or are we going somewhere new?

I always thought Liu ho-Ba Fa was the fourth. According what I was told at Shaolin-Do functions.

[Ou Ji]

Hi Ou Ji,

I take the opposite view! If it isn’t free it isn’t worth knowing! I would only consider paying to defray costs not to provide profit!

???

Got any free seminars hanging around you aren't using? :-)

Where do you guys keep finding all this free stuff?

Actually I'm not so sure I would trust free.

Golden Tiger
I heard Sin The taught out Aneurysm Fist years ago so you should probably have that by now.

[chud]

for 16 years I've heard of Liu Shing (aka Meteor Fist) as another internal style. GMS never taught it to anyone before. I'm curious to see what it looks like, to see what makes it internal vs. external, to see what principles distinguish it from Hsing I, Pa Kua and Tai Chi.

And I'm especially curious to compare it to other sources to see who else out there may have this (if anyone).

Could GMS be making it up? sure, like Scott Brown said. But to do that he would have had to reference it for at least 16 years (probably longer, right GT?) before deciding to create it and then teach it.

As for the animal forms (leopard) being taught as a precursor, it is common in SD to have to learn a set of material as training. The leopard's techniques could be a door to the techniques of this form. In the past GMS and his brother Hsiang has refused to teach certain material because no one could do the underlying training necessary to learn the material.

So, what does this mean for me? I don't know. . . . I'll have to see the material, the principles, the theory and the application and make up my own mind. Just like I try to do for every form I've ever learned.

I'd like to add my two cents if I may. I am an ex-ShaolinDo student. I attended a ShaolinDo school briefly on a trial basis and ended up leaving, not so much because of the reasons most people post on the web, but rather because I found my current sifu who teaches exactly what I am interested in learning, as opposed to ShaolinDo which taught some things that I was interested in learning but also many other things that I was not interested in learning (since they teach such a broad scope of material).

Regarding GM Sin, I met him at one of his seminars. He seemed like a kind and sincere person, and he was certainly in great shape for his age. He is often criticized for claiming to know 900 forms or for possibly making up forms, however what I noticed was that when I attended his seminar he had a sheet of parchment with the movements of the form written down on it in both chinese characters and english. Occasionally he would refer to this sheet during the seminar. My point is that if GM Sin had just made up the form he would have just taught the made up form from memory, but instead he was working off of some notes written in Chinese that he obviously got from someone. If you believe that he got the information from his Shaolin master then he is apparently a repository of vast martial arts knowledge and a living treasure, but if you believe that he made it up or just lifted it from other styles then he is a fraud running a McDojo. Which is the truth? Each person will have to decide for himself I suppose.

Regarding the issues with the Japanese influence in his school, both in the name Shaolin-DO and the gi's that the students wear, this didn't really bother me because I just chalked it up to the fact that he was a person of Chinese descent who grew up in Indonesia.

I was more concerned with the fact that the school tried to teach too many different forms, many of which didn't seem to really go well together, and for this reason I left and focused on studying with a sifu who teaches strictly internal styles.

In closing I think that Shaolin-Do is a good school for some people, and I don't fault anyone for wanting to study there. It just wasn't for me.

[Judge Pen]

I have been aware of this form since the early 80's. If he made it up, at least he had plenty of time to perfect it.

I thought the same thing. If he did create it, at least he's had it a while.

If he held a seminar on properly wiping your butt, he could count on at least 100 people. He is not teaching this one as a marketing ploy.

Well I don't know about wiping your butt (I can figure that out on my own), but GMS has two seminars a year in Lexington anyway and they are always well attended so requiring people take all 4 pre-requisite forms to learn Liu Shing probably won't make him any more money then if he taught out 6 unrelated forms over that time. In fact, he will probably lose money as his base attendance will be set in the first seminar and will no doubt fall off over the next 5 because of the various personal issues that will come up among the attendees.

He is one of the least money hungry people I know. Stays in the cheapest hotel in town, used to drive a wreck and also used to train and teach 8 to 10 hours a day....a lot of time for free.

From my experience this is true. When I started SD, I lived in an extremely rural part of Appalachia. This county in Virginia did not even have a 4 lane road (still doesn't). It was 5 hours from Lexington and yet every three months GMS would come down for a test. He didn't make much money on these trips (not that many people tested) but he was there every three months. He could have sent some Associate master down to give the test to save him time, so I never thought that he was in it for the money. To make a living, sure, but not gratuitously.

[Ou Ji]

Occasionally he would refer to this sheet during the seminar. My point is that if GM Sin had just made up the form he would have just taught the made up form from memory, but instead he was working off of some notes written in Chinese that he obviously got from someone.

First off, I really don't care either way but .....

I've made up forms before and I have to refer to tape if I want to do them again because I don't commit them to memory. However, if I were going to teach or perform it I would certainly go over it well ahead of time so it would be committed to short term memory so I would have to stop and figure it out at the seminar. I'm sure he could do this too but then you wouldn't have the great visual of a parchment with chinese writing.

but if you believe that he made it up or just lifted it from other styles then he is a fraud running a McDojo.

If he lifted them from other styles then it would be possible to compare them to the styles they were lifted from. In the case of the mantis sets they don't compare to any branch of mantis.

If he made them up then the question is 'Is he qualified?' and the proof would most likely be in their usage. Making up forms does not equate to fraud. If it did then a lot of styles have fraudulent masters in their past.

[MonkeySlap Too]

This is a paradigm issue... one that has no victory conditions...