Using Kung Fu Against Boxing

[superman859]

I have practiced Kung Fu and other more traditional martial arts. I recently joined a Mixed Martial Arts Club however at my school. Mostly they seem to work on western boxing/muy thai and wrestling.

We have done some sparring and I am finding it pretty difficult to use my knowledge against the people who are using boxing. I end up getting punched in the face a lot. The jabs just come fast and they are trying to get me to change my style to be more like boxing but I would prefer not to if there is a better way. I am not good at boxing so sparring against someone who is boxing is hard. On top of that, the gloves we have been using are normal boxing gloves so you can't really grab anything.

Does anyone have any advice for sparring against boxing? I have noticed that kicks would be good since they are only guarding their face, but at the club they havent let us use kicks when sparring yet, kind of a disappointment.

[David Jamieson]

Don't be linear in your footwork. If you move straight back while someone is moving in on you, you are giving it to them like a cheap ho.

If you change direction, the attacker must also do so, in any event, the attacker will have to use more energy than you to continue to follow and commit to his attack, in the meantime, you have ample sidedoor opportunities.

Keep your guard up, learn how to tighten your sh1t up and cover. There are very simple techniques to cover against boxers strikes. They're in your kungfu most likely, it's possible you are using gross textbook motions instead of realistic shorter structures, this is a failing of many kungfu fighters, I regard it as a failing of a school to not introduce the concepts of the changing shape, tightening up and so on.

Watch boxers, see how the defend against incoming from other boxers, learn from this. See where those things are in your own kungfu and make the adjustments. Drill drill drill and drill alive with a partner who will commit in their attacks to give you an idea of how to make the adjustments.

If they're rolling, get to rolling. This area is teh bane of many a kungfu player. Often times large amounts of energy are expended needlessly on the mat by the kungfu fighter simply because they don't understand the forces at play in a clinch or on the ground. NOt saying all KF peeps are like this, in fact many are awakening to the three ranges and incorporating them back into their overall kungfu. It's important to know your enemy (opponent) and to know their strategy, tactics, strengths and weaknesses.

If you stay in the bubble of only what you have been told, then that is where you will remain. You are at the point perhaps where it is time for you to take ownership and responsibility for the realistic development of your personal kungfu.

[Judge Pen]

Does anyone have any advice for sparring against boxing? I have noticed that kicks would be good since they are only guarding their face, but at the club they havent let us use kicks when sparring yet, kind of a disappointment.

That's part of the problem, isn't it? You aresenal is limited, but there's really isn't as much. My advice is keep your guard up more and look for kung fu techniques that will work. YOu will not be able to out-punch a boxer but you will learn a lot obout their timing, footwork and angles which will serve you well when you are allowed to use all of your kung fu techniques.

[EarthDragon]

david J, again you beat me to the punch. I was going to also say footwork. in 8 step we move circles around (step up and step back) type fighters.

by the time they turn to catch up we have struck and moved angular or circular and struck again.

Not many systems teach such elaboarte foot work as 8 step but you can try incompassing some Ba Gua or Aikido circles.

Play your game dont follow the boxers jaunt make him follows yours. boxing is very limited kung fu is not.

[MasterKiller]

Well, I am a Kung Fu guy who currently trains at an MMA club, so I can give you a little advice in that regard:

Learn to shield instead of trying to intercept the punches. Especially in Long Fist, it's common practice to hook/deflect/grab the incoming punch. These techniques have a time and a place (wearing boxing gloves also makes them very hard to do), but they also make it easier for someone to sneak a quick jab through. Shielding will allow you to absorb the hit and put you in a good position to counter.

Also, I use a front heel kick (teep) to keep them from closing the gap. I mainly kick the lead thigh or stomach, but occassionally I can land one high into their chest. It is pretty successful. That kick is my bread-and-butter, and I learned it in kung fu.

One thing you SHOULD have that boxers don't is some throws. If they do close the gap and get in tight, use the opportunity to clinch up and try to throw him.

Kung fu and MMA = Kick, Punch, Throw, Lock (submit). Use them all.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Here's something for you to consider, supe...(from a thread I started some time ago entitled WING CHUN BOXING):

"I've been using certain techniques and principles that resemble boxing somewhat...and yet are still very much Wing Chun in orientation.

It concerns NOT trying to simply attack the "center" of the opponent. But rather to also look upon both of his arms (particularly near his shoulders)... as vertical centerlines running down toward his legs.

I'm in a front stance - whatever front stance. Could be a left front stance vs. his left front; or it could be my left front stance vs. his right front.

Either way, my two arms are matched up against his (ie.- my left arm vs. his right arm) - and it is fighting his right arm for CONTROL of the vertical centerline that I just described...while my right arm is fighting his left arm for control of the other vertical centerline.

(All of this is being done IN ADDITION TO my main centerline that runs down the actual center of my body).

So at the moment I'm talking about 3 centerlines...with special emphasis on the two outside lines.

It's as if I'm dueling with a foil in each hand against his two foils simultaneously.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'LL CONSTANTLY JUST CHASE HIS HANDS...

On the contrary, - suppose he just dropped his right hand lead from his guard position right down to his side - I wouldn't chase his arm/hand - I would simply punch into the line that is now completely open with my left fist (but I'd probably throw a low to medium height punch - not a head shot - so as to maintain control (and occupy) the line if he decided to immediately come back up again with that hand that he dropped.

Furthermore...I would NOT be moving toward him with my MAIN centerline directly facing his center...I would be in a more basic boxing type pose - which means that - in the example I just gave of him dropping his right arm down - and I was in a left lead stance...the left punch I would throw would look like a boxer's stiff straight lead - with body torgue and with the punch being thrown horizontally. (Not the vertical wing chun sun punch).

Because I'm assuming that the distance would require this type of punch (for extra reach). I'm not assuming that I'm already in a very close limb-to-limb contact or trapping range.

Which is a whole other issue - distancing and footwork from a longer than typical "wing chun" range. What's needed is a more up-on-your-toes type of footwork coupled with low kicks in order to bridge the gap quickly.

So I'm using a long range "wing chun boxing" type strategy as a means to get closer to the inside close quarter position - while hopefully also landing punches (and possibly kicks)....as well as maybe beginning to trap, pin, pak, or lop an arm....but most of all - by CONTROLLING, OCCUPYING, AND GOING FORWARD on a "centerline".

In other words - I'm establishing a bridge through the use of longer range boxing technique - BUT GUIDED BY WING CHUN CENTERLINE PRINCIPLES.

(Or central line principles...take your pick. But's it's still Wing Chun).

And yet it's also something a little different than what some may have considered Wing Chun to be in the past.

One more note:

I will also oftentimes purposely throw horizontal longer range boxing type punches into the very lines that he may be covering with a tight defense so as to purposely create a bridge (and a "centerline") to try and take control of. I'm forcing his arms to either engage mine or run the risk of taking a hit to the body or head - because the punches are directly on one (or both) of these outside centerlines - and are therefore the shortest distance between the proverbial two points."

[MasterKiller]

Boxing is for sport, CMA is for killing.

So which one is your group doing when they fight San Shou at Taiji Legacy? Sport or Murder?

[superman859]

Do these techniques work well on bigger guys as well? Or is there anything else that I should try to use to my advantage against them? One of the main guys I interact with at the club is pretty big (not fat...big just tall and big, long arms, everything), while I am normal height, kinda skinny. He would just throw some punches and would be hitting me and I couldn't even reach him yet with jabs or anything. My stance was pretty much shoulder forward (for example, left) but that would just put my right hand even further away so it was a lot harder to even use. They are trying to have me turn more so I just have a foot back and im centered on his body (not any shoulder forward..just normal) and stick both hands up in front (pretty much like boxing), but I find it so awkward for my hands and also feel like there isn't as much power when I actually do hit.

[MasterKiller]

They are trying to have me turn more so I just have a foot back and im centered on his body (not any shoulder forward..just normal) and stick both hands up in front (pretty much like boxing), but I find it so awkward for my hands and also feel like there isn't as much power when I actually do hit.

Power comes from the waist, right? You shouldn't need to be able to extend your arms out in order to generate power. You probably need to get your hips into your punches if you don't feel like you are hitting hard enough.

With your hands up, you can guard the face with your hands and use your elbows to protect your ribs and stomach. Use your knees and shins (Crane stance) to protect against kicks.

Putting your hands up to shield also allows you to move into throwing/clinching range against a larger guy without taking serious blows. Shield up, take a marching step in, and start working from inside his arm range.

Plus, that side stance is going to get you single-legged real quick. You need to adjust your stance more forward (like they are telling you) so you can aviod the wrestling take-down attempts, by either sprawling, cross-facing, or pushing down on the head, or a combination of all three.

You're paying to be coached, so listen to the coach. Learn what he is telling you, then try to apply your kung fu in that context.

[gfx]

Sport is the training for killing.

In front of Muah Thai, BJJ, MMA, Boxing, CMA image is just too "soft". We need to give CMA a much more macho image so "CMA is for killing" will be proper for that logo.

If you beat me with open hands, I'll come back with knife. If you beat me with knife, I'll come back with gun. If you still beat me, I'll find a rope and a quite place to hang myself. My son and my grandson will repeat what I just did. We CMA guys don't do sport and we don't play fair. Ground fight? We all got spikes rings on. Do you guys still want to play? So do you non-CMA guys still want to mess with our CMA guys?

I kind like this kind of new macho CMA image.

No, it's called being a thug.
Please don't poison CMA with this kind of thinking.

If all the above arts can be seen as "Macho" without deliberatly resort to your suggested actions, why can't you do the same? Or must you resort to intimidation like a school yard bully?

Grow up.

[lkfmdc]

I have practiced Kung Fu and other more traditional martial arts. I recently joined a Mixed Martial Arts Club however at my school. Mostly they seem to work on western boxing/muy thai and wrestling.

We have done some sparring and I am finding it pretty difficult to use my knowledge against the people who are using boxing. I end up getting punched in the face a lot. The jabs just come fast and they are trying to get me to change my style to be more like boxing but I would prefer not to if there is a better way. I am not good at boxing so sparring against someone who is boxing is hard. On top of that, the gloves we have been using are normal boxing gloves so you can't really grab anything.

Does anyone have any advice for sparring against boxing? I have noticed that kicks would be good since they are only guarding their face, but at the club they havent let us use kicks when sparring yet, kind of a disappointment.

Understand me clearly, I don't take issue with the poster, but I HATE posts like this, and threads like this make me sick....

1. " I am finding it pretty difficult to use my knowledge against the people who are using boxing"

Funny, you always hear about how boxing is "just a sport" and how advanced Chinese martial arts are, blah blah, yet when sparring with a boxer, how many TCMA students find themselves lost

What boxing has over TCMA the way it is done these days, is BASICS. The don't try to teach you the ultra-secret flying weasal defense. They teach you to cover up, then they teach you ANGLES...

If TCMA students weren't so hard headed, they'd box, learn the angles of attack and then maybe figure out what works and what simply doesn't

2. " they are trying to get me to change my style to be more like boxing but I would prefer not to"

There are no legitimate Chinese martial arts that do not have straight punches, hooking punches and uppercuts

Let me repeat


There are no legitimate Chinese martial arts that do not have straight punches, hooking punches and uppercuts

Stop thinking of it as "evil boxing" and practice your basics dude!!!! That is really what it comes down to. If you can't straight punch, forget the f-in eagle claw

3. "the gloves we have been using are normal boxing gloves so you can't really grab anything"

FALSE BELIEF NUMERO UNO!!!

You think without gloves you are gonna reach out and catch a punch??

This bull.....uh.... mistaken belief comes from generations of not sparring against a real human being with a pulse

Against a real strike, WRAP YOUR ARM. That is the only tried and true, PROVEN method of grappling a striker. "Youknowwho" will be here in a minute, if not already, to talk about that !!!!

4. "I have noticed that kicks would be good since they are only guarding their face"

You "noticed"? No, you ASSUME..... think about this for one minute, when you are kicking you are standing on ONE LEG. the boxer is on two feet, rooted, and throwing punches. If you don't learn how to defend properly, and set up your kicks, just throwing a kick out there and you're gonna eat some leather (or poly depending upon the gloves he's wearing)

[lkfmdc]

- Chain kicks
- Inside arm wrapping
- Ouside arm jaming
- Head lock
- Knee seizing
- Run him down

See. he was already here!

[Indestructible]

If you are going to fight within the confines of a boxing ruleset, then you should learn how to box.

[SiuHung]

Kung fu vs. Boxing=footwork, footwork, footwork, and strategy.

lkfmdc is right on when he says that CMA' use basically the same punches. Study the basic footwork patterns of your style and begin to work them against basic boxing combinations, which by now you've been exposed to. Standing toe to toe, or staying linear will get your face smashed. This is the sad result of learning kung fu from too many generations of forms masters.

[bodhitree]

I am also a TCMA guy who is now at a mma gym. I agree with a lot of whats been said, basics, footwork, streight punches. So far, the only things i've been able to use in my mma game from my tcma have been a few takedowns. I'm sure there will be a place for some more. MMA is using a resisting opponent trying to win, a lot of my prior training was someone throwing a slow punch and leaving it there. what sounds great in theory may not be so great in practice. Basics basics basics!