Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Taiji Hold the Ball?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Playa Jobos, Puerto Rico
    Posts
    4,840

    Taiji Hold the Ball?

    . . . . . . . .

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Right here, right now
    Posts
    638
    Looks closer to Cloud Hands.
    What happens in Gong Sao stays in Gong Sao.

    "And then my Qi exploded, all over the bathroom" - name witheld

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Playa Jobos, Puerto Rico
    Posts
    4,840
    Yea!!!!!

    I never learned the form, but I kind of use the same power when doing both (sure this is my mistake)... that shoulder pulling or pushing the mass of the arm .... kind of like swinging a heavy one-handed hammer power, or pulling a lawn mower chord.

    But yea, I can see the cloud hands too.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    532
    that's a press
    Tai Chi is

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Huntington, NY, USA website: TenTigers.com
    Posts
    7,718
    "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"
    -Sigmund Freud

  6. #6
    doesn't look like tai chi to me

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    2,223
    i guess it is one way to explain "hold the ball". although i thought that hold the ball was more of a standing embrace used to throw the opponent down rather than what those pics show(which from my view looks like your basic mount and grapple from the ground).

    although there are alot of ways to intepret the movements in tai chi. whatever definition that works personally for you is what counts(nothing new).

    peas and wub,,,,TWS
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,863
    Ray,

    You working on submissions?

    FT

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    943
    Interesting....

    I am sure such "grappling looking" moves are very effective, and if it is an interpretation of "holding the ball" one can say so.

    But in my opinion what make Tai Chi unique is the principles behind it, not the moves. So what I'm asking in this case is:

    1. How much physical strength was used?
    2. If a fair bit of strength was used, was it working on its own or was it lead by Yi Qi?
    3. Was the body integrated from head to toe, or was it just the upper body?
    4. Did you borrow your opponent's Yi Qi or strength, or did you over-power your opponent by force?

    I would say it is Tai Chi only if it sticks to some of the points above. But then, who cares if it is Tai Chi or not, if it is effective and it kicks ass?

    Cheers,
    John
    Dr. J Fung
    www.kulowingchun.com

    "打得好就詠春,打得唔好就dum春"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,863
    Hi John,

    Interesting post mate, although i must add that since ive been doing some submission and wrestling its very important to relax and feel as you can burn more energy then whats needed. Especially if you are caught on the ground and trying to escape and switch positions!

    How are you developing your throwing and take down game off a punch or wrestling type clinch?

    Garry

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,042

    Hmm

    Interesting wrestle, and you got the superior position, but Taiji it certainly ain't.
    " Don't confuse yourself with someone who has something to say " - The Fall

    " I do not like your tone/ It has ephemeral whingeing aspects " - The Fall

    " There are twelve people in the world/ The rest are paste " - Mark E Smith

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,863
    Hi Repulse Monkey,

    I dont understand your last post dude, can you please elaborate? Are you saying that TAIJI or your training doesnt have any type of wrestling (Chinese OR Mongolian type)?

    regards
    FT

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Right here, right now
    Posts
    638

    A simple question

    Is Taiji the technique, or the way the technique is executed?


    Can Hold The Ball only be done in a standing position?


    Ok, two simple questions.
    What happens in Gong Sao stays in Gong Sao.

    "And then my Qi exploded, all over the bathroom" - name witheld

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    943
    Quote Originally Posted by fiercest tiger

    since ive been doing some submission and wrestling its very important to relax and feel as you can burn more energy then whats needed
    Hello Gary,

    Well said about relax and feel. I am more from the "Throw and smash, hit and run" school of thought so I focus more on getting out of sticky situations and run than trying to take someone down into a submission hold....

    The pictures Ray posted is a good. It takes most of us back to reality and have to contemplate on "how do I get out of this sh!t using my Tai Chi!"

    In my opinion, Tai Chi is not about being soft , but about being sensitive and plyable. There is a big difference between being soft and being plyable. If you stay soft like an over-cooked noodle there's no way in the world one can get out of this kind of hold. But if you are plyable like some visco-elastic material one would have a better chance to get out. A over-cooked noodle can only bend and yield, but visco-elastic material also adapt, redistribute, redirect, and recoil.

    If we look at the Tai Chi classic chapter written by Wang Zhong Yue (of which many people see this chapter as gold standard), he never talked about yielding. He talked about adapting and transferring.

    Cheers,
    John
    Dr. J Fung
    www.kulowingchun.com

    "打得好就詠春,打得唔好就dum春"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,863
    Very Kool Mate, same principles i can see to YAU KUNG flexabile power rather then just limp type. Went i meant soft i also meant plyable that is a better word! although i like more the stand up game i do throws, sweeps, takedowns. But YKM use the 3 circle method which can be applied on the ground, just people of YKM havent yet seen or experienced this IMHO. Thats why im trying to get my Submission game a bit better incase im getting taken down etc. We also strike and stuff on the ground!

    YKM effortless type throws work on manipulating the head, neck and spine, as well taking of balance using as less force as posible although hard to always pull off but thats the theory. I think the way i see my own system is very good at clinch and stand up wrestling for the take down and throws, sweeps etc. The striking is based on soft power holding no tension!

    Is that like Taiji?

    have a good one mate!
    Garry

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •