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Thread: weight training frequency. how much?

  1. #16
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    I don't like the standard break down of body parts routines for a few reasons.
    1. yes they do build strength but like I said, not functional strength. Take the bench press for example: How is this motion useful in any sport? Where in sport or life for that matter do you have a slow controlled pushing movement? You don't. You have explosive movements.

    2. The body break down workouts take too darn long. I've done them before and have seen guys in the gym doing them. I'd say average time is 45 minutes to 2 hours. That's too long and s....l....o....w. Also, most of these guys chat with their buddies most of the time.

    3. Isolated strength movements don't exist in sport or life. So why practice them in the gym? Where on earth am I going to use the motion of a bicep curl? The only purpose for this exercise is to increase the size of the muscle so you can look good on the beach. Lame!

    Just to clarify, I'm not saying that a full body routine 3 days a week is good either. What I am saying is full body motion is good.

    What are good exercises?
    1. Pushups are great
    2. Pullups are great. When you do kipping pullups it turns into a full body motion. Great for you core.
    3. body weight squats for speed.
    4. box jumps.
    5. All Olympic lifts are awesome.
    6. Many more non traditional exercises.

    All of you guys should try out the crossfit work out. It's awesome.

  2. #17
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    before i did a lot of cardio i was always ticklish when getting massage, I still can't get my legs massaged. Any rough massage, and i'm squirmin. Sucks.
    Bless you

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    1. yes they do build strength but like I said, not functional strength. Take the bench press for example: How is this motion useful in any sport? .
    Thats pretty funny! How is a bench press useful in MA!!!! Whats the most basic thing you could do??? and the 1st thing ppl think of in martial arts? what do you do 1000 times a day?

    are you ready? ..... Punching you T*at! Your pecks are responsible for moving ur arms forward and your triceps straighten your arm. Plus the position you are in at the end of your bench press is the strongest position your arm can make to take an inward force. maybe at some point you may even find the strenght usefull for getting off the floor quickly, or pushing someone or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    2. The body break down workouts take too darn long. I'd say average time is 45 minutes to 2 hours.
    .

    No one should spend anymore than 1hr lifting heavy weights you body cant take the healing even if you can take the pace. and if you can go more than 1 hr youve not been training hard enough.

    thats hardly too slow if your serious about it. You dont pay for your kung fu class and say that 45mins is too slow and your board, do you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    3. Isolated strength movements don't exist in sport or life. So why practice them in the gym? Where on earth am I going to use the motion of a bicep curl?.
    Your so dumb its getting me down. You wouldnt use a bicep curl in many sports, but a stronger bicep gives you more pulling power. Climbing - grapling - hook punch - carrying the shopping. Plus when you lift weight you are strengthening you core muscles(there the ones all round your mid-section, not just abs!!!). the stronger your core musles, the more they support your spine and the less chance you'll get of having a bad back later in life.
    "Turn your face to the sun, and your shadows will fall behind you."

    "While your looking to hit for points, we are breaking legs and taking you by the neck"

  4. #19
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    Bodhitree - I was the same.
    Best thing is to have a massive massive leg workout, it loosens up the musscle and gets it really warm, then go right in for your massage and ask her (him if your unlucky) to do you legs 1st.

    I had the same problem, but it so much better after a couple of massages.
    "Turn your face to the sun, and your shadows will fall behind you."

    "While your looking to hit for points, we are breaking legs and taking you by the neck"

  5. #20
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    n.mitch,

    In CST's perspective, we do not isolate muscles into a specific group for specific training. However if you want to train muscles into groups and discuss when and how to do so will be than you want to discuss this with those who have the paradigm of bodybuilding and perhaps powerlifting? In the body building community, there is two schools of thoughts: more is better and less is more. Intensity, progressive loading, and volume will vary according your psychological temperament, genetic make up, past experience, and present specific goals. What works best for me in putting on size and strength is doing a double density program using my 45lb Clubbell bruiser. I am doing the ABC program: http://clubbell.tv/abc.html. I do not do specific isolated exercises, but I am adding "size" evenly all over by using my Bruiser. I have noticed that the principles of ABC and the attritubes have developed through CST has also increased my martial arts ability as well.

    One in CST,
    Bao
    Last edited by FooFighter; 10-28-2005 at 09:09 AM.
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  6. #21
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    Don't call people stupid and then misspell "Bored" as "board"

    If training once a week was the fastest path to strength, then Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters would train once a week. They don't, though. They train their "bodyparts" two or three times a week.

    Also, I believe I am being misquoted as training 3 times a week, when what I said is that I train the whole body every 3 days in general. You can do more or less though.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    Where on earth am I going to use the motion of a bicep curl? .
    If you have ever tried to fight off being armbarred, you wouldn't ask that question.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  8. #23
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    yes indeed MK
    Bless you

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofkent
    Thats pretty funny! How is a bench press useful in MA!!!! Whats the most basic thing you could do??? and the 1st thing ppl think of in martial arts? what do you do 1000 times a day?

    are you ready? ..... Punching you T*at! Your pecks are responsible for moving ur arms forward and your triceps straighten your arm. Plus the position you are in at the end of your bench press is the strongest position your arm can make to take an inward force. maybe at some point you may even find the strenght usefull for getting off the floor quickly, or pushing someone or something.
    Yep, was pretty much expecting responses like this. So your saying that the isolated movement of the bench press helps you be a better puncher. Hmmm, lets think about this. Yes they are similar motions BUT and THIS IS HUGE they are not the same mechanics. Question for you: Where does punching power come from? Come on, your supposed to be a martial artist. Where does punching power come from? FROM YOUR HIP! Not your pecs.

    As far as using the muscles to get yourself up off the floor goes. HMMMMM, sounds alot like a push up. Why not do those. Pushing someone, sorry, wrong again, that's a full body movement just like a punch.

    Quote Originally Posted by manofkent
    No one should spend anymore than 1hr lifting heavy weights you body cant take the healing even if you can take the pace. and if you can go more than 1 hr youve not been training hard enough.

    thats hardly too slow if your serious about it. You dont pay for your kung fu class and say that 45mins is too slow and your board, do you?
    Serious about what becoming a ballooned up body builder? Body building training and martial arts training are hardly the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by manofkent
    Your so dumb its getting me down. You wouldnt use a bicep curl in many sports, but a stronger bicep gives you more pulling power. Climbing - grapling - hook punch - carrying the shopping. Plus when you lift weight you are strengthening you core muscles(there the ones all round your mid-section, not just abs!!!). the stronger your core musles, the more they support your spine and the less chance you'll get of having a bad back later in life.
    So you do bicep curls to strengthen your core? Ok. A much better exercise would be chin ups or pullups.

    Have fun flexing in front of the mirror.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller
    If you have ever tried to fight off being armbarred, you wouldn't ask that question.
    I respect that. But I would argue that many more muscles come into play.

    The point I'm trying to make (and maybe I didn't do a very good job) is compound exercises or functional exercises are better for what we do as martial artists. Isolation exercises are designed for body builders simply to increase mass.

    I see a body builder and I think, wow that guy is huge, or that guy is ripped. BUT how many pullups can he do? How many handstand pushups can he do? How much can he clean or snatch. These are all functional strength exercises and we, as martial artists require functional strength.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    Yep, was pretty much expecting responses like this. So your saying that the isolated movement of the bench press helps you be a better puncher. Hmmm, lets think about this. Yes they are similar motions BUT and THIS IS HUGE they are not the same mechanics. Question for you: Where does punching power come from? Come on, your supposed to be a martial artist. Where does punching power come from? FROM YOUR HIP! Not your pecs.
    Boxers weight train. Of course the punch come from the hip. in a perfect world we would all have a perfect punch and split the bag everytime from our iron fist. But I've only been training for 12 yrs and I felt that weight training was a great way to improve my martial arts. After 2 yrs my punching power has improved by a hell of a lot.

    I'm not just making this stuff up, this is all from experiance and knowlege of the ppl around me. I have followed many diffrent programs and been used as a guinnea pig for my mate who is doing a BA in Gym based exersise. and my girlfriend is a gym instructer (NVQ lev3)




    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    Serious about what becoming a ballooned up body builder? Body building training and martial arts training are hardly the same thing..
    I know, thats what im saying... You should keep training seperate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Fox
    So you do bicep curls to strengthen your core? .
    Yes, standing bicep curls on a wobble bored. It improves stability and the contant tention on you upper body keeps your core working. You really should know better as a martial artist.

    Working for mass or strength comes from the type of lifting you do and your diet (roids) not how many times a week you train. Power lifting is very complex and many of them do train every day, but this is only when they practise the actual lift, they will do 1 or 2 lifts, and thats them done for the day. on days where they are training for strength they will have rest days after.

    I agree with what Chief fox is saying about body builders. But thats kind of my point, It can work very much in your favour if you are stronger. Massive bulk will slow you down a lot, but honestly you cant get that big without steriods. If you look at a super heavy weight boxer, thats about as big as any human could get without roids.

    Being stronger helps in everyday life, apart from the basics, if you have a strong core section, your much less likely to get back problems later in life.
    "Turn your face to the sun, and your shadows will fall behind you."

    "While your looking to hit for points, we are breaking legs and taking you by the neck"

  12. #27
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    Sorry I forgot to add.

    Chief fox asked how many pull ups body builder can do and other things. You made your point about body builders. But im not a bodybuilder and I dont think a bodybuilder would be able to be a good martial artist. Im saying that strength training will help any bodys martial art. Even if its just being able to stand in wide stances without loosing good form.
    "Turn your face to the sun, and your shadows will fall behind you."

    "While your looking to hit for points, we are breaking legs and taking you by the neck"

  13. #28
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    Chief fox,

    Do not waste your time explaining yourself. Some people just do not get it. "Bodybuilding" is not the great mean to optimal performance for sports or martial arts. The breathing, movement, and structure skills of bodybuilding is totally opposite to the skills of sports and the MAs.

    Bao
    Last edited by FooFighter; 10-29-2005 at 05:38 AM.
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  14. #29
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    Im not defending body building.
    Im saying that weight training is benificial to martial arts.

    Check out "the science of martial arts training"

    and answer my question... If boxers and UFC guys weight train, witch they do, why do you think it wont help in kung fu.

    Body building and weight training are very diffrent from eachother by the way.
    "Turn your face to the sun, and your shadows will fall behind you."

    "While your looking to hit for points, we are breaking legs and taking you by the neck"

  15. #30
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    Charles I. Staley, author of "The science of martial arts training" is a great S&C coach and writer but he is not a martial artist. I have read his book, but gain very little from it. Maybe because of my background and experience. It was repeated information about periodization and logical progression skill development. Anyway, his paradigm of training is does not match the paradigm of martial artists in my opinion when I read his book. So his book tells you very little how to improve your MA game. I do not hate the book, but the author is not a martial artist. He is simply an expert in strength conditioning. I am not against strength and conditioning for martial arts, but I disagree in some of the approaches use for martial arts training such as preacher curls for defense against arm bars. LOL.

    Bao
    Last edited by FooFighter; 10-29-2005 at 06:06 AM.
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    Your Success is our Success

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