salutaion/bow in Southern CMA

[brothernumber9]

What info can anyone share on the commonality of the salutations/bows of forms of some particularly southern CMA.

For example, in several styles including Choy Lay Fut, Hung Fut and a few others, there is a segment where the arms spread out in a "eagle wings" sort of pose. One source I have come accross referenced styles having such a salutation/bow being influenced by Fut Ga Kuen, indirectly assuming a link to the fabled southern shaolin temple.

Some bows between systems are near identical aside from one or two minor details, yet the styles at least along popular lines are completely independant in development post alleged southern shaolin temple.

What I'm really digging for is if there is a common thread or influence to all these different southern systems that have similar salutations, wether it be southern shaolin temple, Fut Ga independently of southern shaolin, or some other influence or origin.

[jmd161]

What info can anyone share on the commonality of the salutations/bows of forms of some particularly southern CMA.

For example, in several styles including Choy Lay Fut, Hung Fut and a few others, there is a segment where the arms spread out in a "eagle wings" sort of pose. One source I have come accross referenced styles having such a salutation/bow being influenced by Fut Ga Kuen, indirectly assuming a link to the fabled southern shaolin temple.

Some bows between systems are near identical aside from one or two minor details, yet the styles at least along popular lines are completely independant in development post alleged southern shaolin temple.

What I'm really digging for is if there is a common thread or influence to all these different southern systems that have similar salutations, wether it be southern shaolin temple, Fut Ga independently of southern shaolin, or some other influence or origin.

Can't help much on the "commonality " of salutations/bows, but i do know the "eagle wings" part you speak of. I learned it in Hung Fut when i was training Hung Fut, now that i'm starting Fut Gar and Hung Gar here, it's in both systems salutations/bow.

In Black Tiger we have several different salutations/bows that we use including a secret Black Tiger bow, and that part is not in any of our bows. from what i heard from a friend is, that all southern styles at one time might have included that eagle's wing part, but i'm not sure about that.

In one of Black Tiger's bows it's the common fist/palm bow you see many styles do.

On another note having seen some Hung Fut and learned a little (though very little) It's easy to see Fut Gar's influence on Hung Fut from the very start. I really like what i'm seeing with the Fut Gar. I recommend anyone that has a chance to learn authentic Fut Gar do so....just my thoughts.

jeff

[TenTigers]

what exactly is the symbolism behind the open wings? It is also used in CLF, and I have also seen it in Bak Siu Lum. Some Hung-Ga schools use it and I believe all Jow Ga schools as well.
The poem, 'Warrior and Priest fight together Side by side
back to back, we pull our country together"
goes hand in hand with the Southern Siu-Lum bow, just as the fist and palm form the Character 'Ming"

[Lohanhero]

is this eagle wings section you speak of the techneque just before presentation of fist and palm?

havent asked the meaning of this one but within our school its usage at begining is drawing in a kick to throw someone. with the palm and fist presentation as a strike to the solar plexus and palm to stop any hand attack while throwing.

[jmd161]

is this eagle wings section you speak of the techneque just before presentation of fist and palm?

Yes, it's the movements right before the "presentation of fist and palm"


Actually, now that i remember my Hung Fut sifu told me it's meaning, i'll call him and find out.

I have also seen it in Bak Siu Lum.

hmmm, i've never seen it used in Bak Sil Lum


jeff

[Lohanhero]

i think i have a video clip of bei shaolin form with this in it, if u would like i could try and find and send to. can check at moment though gotta go in a sec.
i have also seen this in one of the shaolin si schools in china but they present the sun and moon, hand and fist a long way apart from eachother.

[Ben Hor]

What info can anyone share on the commonality of the salutations/bows of forms of some particularly southern CMA.

For example, in several styles including Choy Lay Fut, Hung Fut and a few others, there is a segment where the arms spread out in a "eagle wings" sort of pose. One source I have come accross referenced styles having such a salutation/bow being influenced by Fut Ga Kuen, indirectly assuming a link to the fabled southern shaolin temple.

Some bows between systems are near identical aside from one or two minor details, yet the styles at least along popular lines are completely independant in development post alleged southern shaolin temple.

What I'm really digging for is if there is a common thread or influence to all these different southern systems that have similar salutations, wether it be southern shaolin temple, Fut Ga independently of southern shaolin, or some other influence or origin.

>
Assuming the "Eagle Wings" action to be what I think it is in the Beggars Art the action is called 'White Crane (or Stork) Opening Wings'. It serves as both a physical preparation when practising the forms that contain it, for example Sam Chian and also as part of a release/escape technique. The two purposes are two sides of the same coin.
>
As far as the salutations are concerned within the Beggars Art they are 'threefold', the first component is the right arm above the left, held parallel to the body. The upper arm signifies the person to whom you are bowing, the lower arm refers to oneself. In other words it is saying 'you are above me', that is to say, more important.
>
The second component is the action of placing two knuckles of the right hand in the left palm; The left palm/fingers represent North, South, East, West. The five knuckles of the right hand represent the five hills(or mountains) of kung fu; That is to say the original five styles/systems. The two knuckles (1st & 2nd) used in our system represent the Northern and Southern hills, that is to say the Legs of Tai Chor and the Hands of Peh Hoke (Great Ancestor and White Crane). The message being, 'in the world of kung fu we practise the northern and southern hills sytems.
>
The third element is that used in shaolin forms that are part of the Beggars Art curriculum this is the familiar elbows at side of waist hands open with palms up, pulling hands back and clenching into fists, when the fists are at the sides of the waist they are turned over and opened out and pushed down (palms facing ground) until the palms have reached top of thighs. This is meant to represent the hidden message 'pulling together we shall overthrow'. This action is also used as physical preparation, dynamic tension if you like.
>
Hope this has been of some interest.
>
Best wishes

[TenTigers]

Jeff,
not in the bow, but in Moi Fa there is a part where it is done.

[Ben Hor]

Hi Ten Tigers,
>
Is Moi Far Plum Blossom? I ask because we have Mei Far in Beggars Art. They are always called Blossom Fingers (colloquial) due to the nature of many of the strikes being done with the index fingers.
>
In these forms wqe also use the 'Opening Wings' move but in the case of the Blossom Finger forms this movement follows a very hard strike to one's own stomach with the sides of the hands.
>
Best wishes.

[Lohanhero]

moi fah = canto and Mei Hua = manda
ofcause it depends on how ou say the words not the spelling.

[Ben Gash]

I've never heard it referred to as "eagle wings" before. In Choy Li Fut it's called Fun Sau or separating hands, and is a hold break. In northern styles it's usually called "brushing the robes" with a similar application, although it's usually done while advancing, with a cool bodyslam element added. My longfist teacher taught me that you did this at the start of the form to symbolise clearing your robes out the way to free up the legs for fighting.

[Ben Hor]

moi fah = canto and Mei Hua = manda
ofcause it depends on how ou say the words not the spelling.

>
Thanks, I thought that was the case. You are quite right of course, Anglicised translations can vary so very much.

[Lohanhero]

yes, i think people are to focused on spelling and not the meaning of things.
since we are on the internet and typing words in short form is getting more comon i think this is somthing people should learn. also has deeper meaning.
look beond the words. ^^

[Ben Hor]

yes, i think people are to focused on spelling and not the meaning of things.
since we are on the internet and typing words in short form is getting more comon i think this is somthing people should learn. also has deeper meaning.
look beond the words. ^^

>
Well not quite spelling but translation which I'm sure affects translation back into English. A good example of this are a couple of forms in the Beggars Art which are called Kim Kang which both my teacher and his teacher (both Hokkien speakers) translate as Golden Strength. Another Chinese (I believe a Cantonese speaker) translated it as Superman form.

[jmd161]

Jeff,
not in the bow, but in Moi Fa there is a part where it is done.

Ok, i think i know which part you're speaking of...been a long time since i've done any Bak Sil Lum.

I've never heard it referred to as "eagle wings" before.

It's referred to as "Eagle Wings" within Hung Fut Pai, because of the eagle useage within Hung Fut.


jeff