I could weep - the beginning of the end...

[mantis108]

Found this thread on the CyberKwoon:

http://www.cyberkwoon.com/forum/view...f695d02#128660

People actually believe that Qixing Tanglang is an "original" Henan Shaolin Temple form that is taught by the monks. Only the monks are teaching the "real deal"... OMG!

10 more years, they will believe every style outside of the Shaolin disney land are fakes. *Sigh* PRC communist BS is obviously very effective.

Is ignorance really bliss?! Just as I predicted, the beginning of the end is at hand... Man, I could weep! 8*(

Be well and be prepared...

Mantis108

[NorthernShaolin]

Mantis 108,

As you are aware, everything goes in circles. In 20 years, TCMA will make a come back and the only real teachers left will be people like you and I and others on this forum, who will be teaching small selective groups in our garages or basements. By then TCMA will be known as the real deal and people will be seeking the small schools that teaches the TCMA.

[libingshao]

Mantis108,

I think that this battle can be won by steadfastly teaching the art as NorthernShaolin has said. However, I also believe that research based publishing by reputable people can counter much of this. It is a shame the even today most of the publishing of Mantis Boxing material is in Chinese. No qualified Western writer has stepped forward to combat such things. Maybe someone will see this as a challenge and engage in the public arena.

Libingshao

[Lu Bu]

Looks like they just slap Shaolin onto whatever Tanglang style they want. What's wrong with people, today? I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but not everything in the martial arts is solely the product of one source. Shaolin is not the origin of every martial art ever invented.

[godzillakungfu]

What??!! Shaolin wasn't the creator of all fighting ever. You just shattered my world.

[Lu Bu]

I know, I know...hard to believe. I hope you can cope.

[-N-]

Robert,

Don't sweat it. What does it matter what the misinformed think? Plenty of that to go around. Represent the truth and leave it at that. If people want to argue, just smile, nod your head, and continue doing what you do.

It's like with those that don't know how to empty their cup. They go to a teacher, all full of themselves and demand to be taught. The teacher might ask them to demonstrate their skill. Afterwards he'll say politely, "There's nothing that I can teach you!" The person takes it as a compliment and leaves. The rest know otherwise.

Until then, Garage and Park Fu. Video Store Fu even. That's what matters.

N.

[mantid1]

I wouldnt worry to much about the shoalin 7* Mr. 108.

I am still more worried about the korean arts.

People are already brain washed.

My favorite telephone conversation:

"Could you tell me how much your Karate classes are"?

"This is not a Karate school Maam, it is Chinese Kung Fu".

......"Oh, so how much are your karate classes"?

"Our classes are $65.00 a month Maam".

[xifanghong]

Mantis 108

During the revolution change was unstoppable in the mainland. It's a pity that sights were turned on kung fu at that time.

The beginning of the end has happened a long time before this latest news you bring us. The beginning of the end was when magazines and media, and schools in areas where traditional was still alive - the USA, for example - started to accept and publish Modern Wushu on their pages and in their halls.

[RAF]

On the other hand, what has Taiwan and its Government done to preserve the "cultural treasure of China"?

As a devil's advocate let me pose the question: China has also produced the great martial arts historian, Ma Ming Da and what has Taiwan done to advance the history of traditional Chinese martial arts?

Even among the rich, its hard to find a martial arts patron as you find in art itslef..

Its great fun to argue politics, but the subject is a lot more complex.

The truth is that traditional Chinese martial arts, as an important part of Chinese culture, is not valued greatly regardless of what the political system is in place.

In 1998, I had to sit through the martial arts demonstration at the Shaolin Temple in Songshan and it made me sick---pure garbage. On the other hand, at least Qingdao and Yan Tai are attempting to preserve the traditional martial art of Taiji Meihua Pryaing Mantis--I wish Taiwan would wake up.


That is the sadness---the deteriorating status of traditional Chinese martial arts.

[RAF]

Let me add one other point, Chinese both Taiwanese and mainland send their children to Chinese school for writing reading, language, violin lessons, piano lessons etc. etc---all very well and cultured.

How many Chinese students do we have in our kids classes? Zero and the promises abound when we do our performances in the Akron/Canton/Cleveland area during Chinese holidays---- Parents: "Yes, we will definitely send our children to learn your praying mantis class. Its wonderful!."

What's funny is the $65.00 a month is too much to pay---violin lessons/piano lessons no problem---whatever it takes but not Chinese martial arts?---"Why does it cost so much?" "How comes they aren't free." "Yeah, the community center wants you to teach a kids clsass in the praying mantis---$15.00 an hour providing we get 20 students"---parents: I don't have time to take and pick them up."

The Japanese have done a wonderful job of preserving their marital arts cultural treasure---we fail in TCM because we don't have the support of the Chinese community at large, even within our own families..

I hope its not too late for us here in the states---at least they seem to do it right in Toronto
http://www.bajimen.com/
JiFeng Martial Art Club was founded in 1979, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, by Mr. James XiaoPo Guo.

[Michael Dasargo]

Hi Robert and all,

It truly is heartbreaking to see a culture commodified with no regards to the people who have endured the hardships of the culture. Just as Madonna has no right to commodify the Henna tatoo while people of the Arab world suffered violently (both physically and emotionally) because of racism and xenophobia, people of the Asian, especially the Asian American community, are suffering the same shame and embarrassment when it comes to Kuoshu due to the misunderstanding of the culture.

Because of the shame associated with the stereotype "All Asians know Kung Fu", most young Asian Americans shy away from Kuoshu just as young Hindu American girls often remove the Bindi (vermillian red dot) during school and put it back on on the way home to their parents.

From the Chin Wu to the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Instittute, people of the Kuoshu culture have had an uphill battle starting as early as the Opium Wars. Although "Kung Fu Movies" have provided exposure, it also "miseducated" the general public to mistake Hollywood for reality.

Mantis108,

I also believe that research based publishing by reputable people can counter much of this.

...
Maybe someone will see this as a challenge and engage in the public arena.

Libingshao

What myself and a few Boxers here in San Diego have done is establish a Union of Boxers in a non-profit org. in an attempt to avoid policits and the pitfalls involved with profitable gain. The org. is known as "The Kuoshu Union" and we are currently applying for grants to fund a planned annual event at SDSU known as "The Kuoshu Heritage Festival". Unfortunately, it is very difficult to motivate volunteers when their is no financial gain involved...so we are relying heavily on grants to fund the event (which may take months).

The organization is fueled by those who are passionate about the culture and want to see damage like this undone. The Union is a collabrative effort and not about the promotion of any one line, system, or individual.

In all honesty, one primary pitfall that we have is that the current Members are heavily composed of Non-Chinese...leading us to the obstacle of racism/prejudice. But as Park Bok Nom puts it:

"Don't look at the face, or clothing to judge skill and knowledge. The Jing will tell you what you need to know".

The organization could use all the support we can get. For more info., please contact me or go to www.Kuoshu-Union.org

Thanks for reading my rant,
M.Dasargo

[Michael Dasargo]

Let me add one other point, Chinese both Taiwanese and mainland send their children to Chinese school for writing reading, language, violin lessons, piano lessons etc. etc---all very well and cultured.

How many Chinese students do we have in our kids classes? Zero and the promises abound when we do our performances in the Akron/Canton/Cleveland area during Chinese holidays----


http://www.bajimen.com/
JiFeng Martial Art Club was founded in 1979, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, by Mr. James XiaoPo Guo.

Unfortunately, at least in San Diego, most of the Chinese community sends their children to Chinese language and writing school, and off to learn Contemporary Wushu from Chinese teachers. Most Chinese Kuoshu Shifu don't have businesses in their art, so naturally the Chinese community goes to what is available...Contemporary Wushu (In San Diego, that would be Jing Martial Arts Instittute and Golden Dragon).

Although it may sound racist, there is actually a deeper reason. Most Chinese immigrants speak English as a second language, and aren't absorbed by American way of life. So they generally choose an instructor who can not only communicate in the consumers native tounge, but also know the behavior and ettiquete of Chinese culture.

The interesting note about Gong Fu and Kuoshu, is that since many Asian American youth (actually, stemming back to the 70's and 80's) have generally avoided Martial Arts because of the stereotype and prejudice associated with it. So in the US at least, the majority of Gong Fu schools (statistically) are preserved by non-Chinese Boxers. So immigrants fresh from the Mainland are more likely to teach Contemporary Wushu, while non-Chinese American businesses (statistically) are more likely to teach Kuoshu.

Another note would be about Asian Americans vs. non-Asian Americans who do practice the art. Asian Americans who are raised by the culture perceive the art as a part of life...like learning how to cook.

The "family recipe" then of course stays within the family due to the intimate value.

Whereas, a person who is generally not raised by the culture may consider the recipe as exotic, and would like to share the joy and wonderful taste with all of society.

Thus, more of those (whether Asian or non-Asian) who are not raised by the art are more inclined to open "cooking schools" while those who grew up on the recipe simply enjoy their dinner after work.

Dos centavos,
M.

[-N-]

The interesting note about Gong Fu and Kuoshu, is that since many Asian American youth (actually, stemming back to the 70's and 80's) have generally avoided Martial Arts because of the stereotype and prejudice associated with it.

Let me add one other point, Chinese both Taiwanese and mainland send their children to Chinese school for writing reading, language, violin lessons, piano lessons etc. etc---all very well and cultured.

How many Chinese students do we have in our kids classes? Zero and the promises abound when we do our performances in the Akron/Canton/Cleveland area during Chinese holidays---- Parents: "Yes, we will definitely send our children to learn your praying mantis class. Its wonderful!."

Chinese culture has the concept of Man Mo, or Wen Wu. That would be Scholar and Warrior, Civil and Military. These were viewed as the two major paths to success. These were both necessary for society. My own Chinese name is a reference to the concept of Wen Wu. Even Japanese culture has the expression "bun bu itchi", "pen and sword in accord."

In theory, both civil and military are valued equally, but in practice scholarship is more respected. The culture is hypocritical in that way. China invented civil service. People would take examinations to receive a government post. One could be of service as a scholar or as a military leader. The reality is that those who chose the military route were looked down upon. Often they were illiterate, and people looked the other way when they took their exams. Cheat sheets? Sure, no problem. It was a standing joke. "Well, someone has to fight our enemies." Some might compare it to a jock attending college on a sports scholarship and getting assigned all easy classes so he could maintain a presentable GPA.

So no, Chinese culture overall does not value martial arts. Sure, there are some Chinese that do, but the typical perspective or prejudice is that martial arts is for no education thugs and troublemakers. It is not surprising that Chinese parents discourage their children from doing martial arts. Sure, Chinese school... reading.. writing.. those are fine. But kung fu is what illiterate villagers did, because there was no such thing as TV in the old days. When I was a kid, most of the Chinese kids doing kung fu were gang members and wannabee bad-asses. Kung Fu for discipline? That is a romanticised American concept. Chinese parents, not Kung Fu, disciplined their kids. My classmates and I were constantly discouraged by our parents from continuing our Kung Fu training.

Chinese parents expect their kids to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers... not basketball players, boxers, and kung fu movie stars. If you are Chinese, tell me you didn't hear your parents complain, "Why you waste time?? Kung Fu only for no education people!" Then they probably tried to make you take piano lessons.

RAF, those parents said they would send their children because they did not want to insult you or hurt your feelings. Most don't have a real desire for their kids to spend time on Kung Fu.

N.

[mantis108]

Thank you for voicing your thoughts in this grave matter. I appreciate all the supports and encouragement that you have given. There are indeed lots of good points made by all. I understand it is pretty much impossible to stop the trend and this is perhaps nothing new. However, I am most troubled by the speed of the development. Mainland have only "promoted" Shaolin Wushu farce for about 20 some years and an martial art that is indigenous to Shandong already being totally annexed without any regard whatsoever by one of the government's agent. Don't be fool by the Buddhist appearance. Shaolin Disney Land is in fact a government sponsered if not controlled agent of cultural propoganda. If I am not mistaken, the abbot is a party member and "elected" representative of "the people" (who exactly voted for whom? I didn't know) . That's why you see modern Wushu but not Kung Fu in and arround the "Shaolin Temple".

In terms of hundreds of years of development of the system, not to mention the hundreds of people who help shaped the system and styles, this is really sickening and extremely disrespectful for those who dedicated their lives both in good and/or bad times. This annexation implies that Tanglangquan is no more than a joke to them which they clearly use it as a cash cow. I weep for the ignorant soul(s) who bought the cr@p with hard earn money, precious time and admirable efforts.

We didn't have concrete proof of how people response to this type of non sense in the west but now with the thread on the CyberKwoon, we can tell exactly that it matches our predictions.

I have always say that there is a good reason why Kung Fu should draw a line with Wushu in a firm and steadfast manner.

Operation Kung Fu Doomsday is well in effect. Dear beloved Kung Fu in China, RIP.
May those who cond@nmed you be paid back in kind someday.

Warm regards

Mantis108