Hung Sing Original Hand forms

[hskwarrior]

I was browsing through the web and came across some of our old posts and read the one about Hung Sing original hand forms.

After contacting our sifu's in fut san, there were 5 primary sets that Jeong Hung Sing taught, they were: (not in any order)

1) Che Kuen
2) Cheung Kuen
3) Ping Kuen
4) Lin Wan Kuen
5) Kou Da Kuen

anything after these sets from any master from this branch was an add on. And as we all know, there are a sheet load of sets throughout the entire (3 branches) choy lee fut system. And regardless, somewhere down the line all choy lee fut people supported each other so its not entirely impossible for one branch to have another branches set.

now i know this may go haywire, but i wanted to know from any "OG" choy lee fut students of the chan family what did the chan family consider their main core of sets before the explosion of sets later on. let me clarify, what sets did chan heung himself teach right after the introduction of choy lee fut.

the chan have the Ng Lun Ma, the hung sing people have CHe Kuen.

i hope you follow me, and lets keep this drama free, please.


hsk

[hskwarrior]

also, it is strictly first and foremost a fut san hung sing kwoon thing to say the following.....

The "L" pattern in the opening of the sets up to the bow was created by Jeong Yim.

as far as i know, the chan family usually starts right in the middle, but are there any sets that follow the "L" pattern from the Chan Family?


hsk

[iron_silk]

Ng Lun Ma is not the equivolent of Che Kuen "I believe"

Chan Family does have Che Kuen and has two names for it (at least my clf instructor did)
1)Che Kuen and 2)Ng Lun Chui (I think I don't remember too well anymore)

I would learn Ng Lun Ma first which is essentially horse stance, basic movements, and basic kicks (actually I think it was one kind of kick) usually repeating movements 3 times in each direction (but varies more near the 1/3).

Then I graduated to Ng Lun Chui which is essentially the same pattern as Ng Lun Ma but now we incorporate hand movements for example "Gwa Sow Been Na Sow Chan Jeurng Cheurng An Chui"

Just thought I share what little I may know...you know putting myself out there and all that.

[bigdoing]

I study under Ng Fu Hang, his grandfather was Chan Yiu Chi. He tells us he hasnt changed what he was taught, allthough im not sure this is the order he learned....this is the way we get it...

fist off he teachs san sao drills right away ( stuff hes picked out of the forms that he likes) and as you are learning those....

1. Ng Lu Ma
2. Ng Lu Choi
3. Sui Mui Fa
4. Ping Jian Kuen
5. Sup ji jit Fu
6. Siu Sup Ji
7. Gum pow duei Churk fu ying kuen
8. Ping Kuen
9. Da Fu Bat Gwa
10. Bat Gwa Sum
11. jao San Ma say moon kiu

thats the hand sets in order to finish the standard ciriuclum for the hand forms.

I'd say the three forms that have the most difference in technique and flow would be Siu Mui Fa, Ping Kuen, and Da Fu Bat Gwa.

Peace,
Bryan.

[CLFNole]

I remember reading about Jeurng Yim's power when playing Sup Gee Kow Dah Kuen, but I don't see it mentioned in the list of original forms. Virtually all of CLF has this set hung sing, buk sing and Chan.

What about the supposed 9 original sets created by Chan Hueng, (tai gee kuen, ping kuen, gwok gee kuen, etc...) Some history mentions these yet only a few are still around.

I always though lien wan kuen was a set added later by the buk sing branch.

[Lohanhero]

hello, i was wondering if i could be given some info on Hung Sing, i beleve this is a society and had different masters of different systems. or is it just CLF?

thank you very much.

[kei lun]

The Choy Lee Fut of the Chui Cheung Assoc. only has 8 forms. Among these are Taai Ji Keun, Ping Ji Keun, Tin Ji Keun and Gok Ji Keun. I have never heard of these forms outside of this association... except in the movie "Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut" where he went through these forms.

Just mentioning it and I cant say for sure these are the original 8 forms, but if you look at the lineage of Chui Cheung its pretty pure, coming from 4 Hung Sing masters. Again, Im not stating anything just saying that this association only has and always had 8 forms.

Kei Lun

[Shaolindynasty]

always though lien wan kuen was a set added later by the buk sing branch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have a lien wan kuen set but it was created by my sigung

[hskwarrior]

many different systems have a lin wan kuen. the one shaolin dynasty is speaking has to do with continuous cyclic panther punches. that one is tam sams creation which i believe came later on. in the lin wan from fut san i rarely see any panther's there.

when it comes to buk sing choy lee fut, first and foremost they are a product of Jeong Yims Hung SIng Kwoon whom eventuall developed their own separate identity.

then you have tam sam who has always claimed to be a hung sing man, never buk sing. up until the 5 student exchange between tam sam and ku yu jeung the buk sing kwoon was purely hung sing choy lee fut. after those 5 students is when buk sing's northern came into play. so there was a point when buk sing was purely hung sing.

it's good that chui kwong Yuen has kept the gok gee, my sifu learned that one long ago and has since forgotten it.

anyways, for what ever reason, after retracing our roots back to the original fut san hung sing kwoon, they decided to give my sifu the original 5 sets that jeong yim taught him self.

peace

[CLFNole]

I often wonder when we use the word "original" if any sets are really that. I mean do we honestly believe that the form is the same as it was when it was made? There is no way so whatever forms each of us have, be it small or large, whats most important is understanding what you have.

Personally I think that forms are more of a modern phenomenon. I mean think about it martial arts were designed for fighting, why do you need "X" number of sets just practice techniques and do drills then fight.

Sorry to stray off track.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

The Choy Lee Fut of the Chui Cheung Assoc. only has 8 forms. Among these are Taai Ji Keun, Ping Ji Keun, Tin Ji Keun and Gok Ji Keun. I have never heard of these forms outside of this association... except in the movie "Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut" where he went through these forms.

Just mentioning it and I cant say for sure these are the original 8 forms, but if you look at the lineage of Chui Cheung its pretty pure, coming from 4 Hung Sing masters. Again, Im not stating anything just saying that this association only has and always had 8 forms.

Kei Lun

So where do all these other forms come from on the list I posted? The animal forms? The baat gwa forms? The Sup Ji forms? etc, etc? And if these 8 are "original" why don't more Choy Lay Fut schools have these forms? Why didn't they survive and/or why weren't they handed down?

It just doesn't seem to add up.

[Fu-Pow]

Personally I think that forms are more of a modern phenomenon. I mean think about it martial arts were designed for fighting, why do you need "X" number of sets just practice techniques and do drills then fight.

Sorry to stray off track.

Peace.

Tao Lu serves several purposes.....

1)Compact workout routine that allows you to practice many aspects of the art in a short time frame.

2)Develops correct form (Xing) and the body mechanics (Jin) that support good form.

3)Serves as a "catalogue" of methods/techniques (Fa) and strategy (Tao) of the style. (That reminds me I need to add Fa to my sig)


I don't think you could get all that just by doing drills and sparring. I think that you'd miss a whole lot if you got rid of forms altogether.

[CLFNole]

I am not saying that forms are not important, its the number of forms mainly I am referring to.

Why would you need more than 20 different hand sets or 10 different staff forms to develop the items you mentioned?

As far as the supposed 9 original forms, if they were real it could be possible that names could have changed over the years. But as far as the animal sets and baat kwa sets when they came in is anyone's guess. Maybe Chan Hueng developed them at a later stage?

I don't know and really don't care too much. What is important is what is around today that is all we can really concern ourselves with anyhow.

Peace.

[kei lun]

Fu Pow,

Why dont other schools have our forms? I honestly dont know. I never really bothered asking my sifu or others in my clan about what is "original" or "authentic" in the system, I didnt think that would be polite on my part and not sure if I would get an answer anyway.
It would be concievable that these are the originals, or even that they are made up forms, Im happy either way.
It has always seemed to me that these were original from Jeung Yim, considering we have 4 lines from Jeung Yim. However, knowing that no other schools seem to share our forms makes me wonder.

All I can say is that in all our forms, hand and weapon, we have no forms that share "names" with any of the forms from the Chan Style, except Ping Keun.


Keilun

[Shaolindynasty]

"many different systems have a lin wan kuen. the one shaolin dynasty is speaking has to do with continuous cyclic panther punches. that one is tam sams creation"

Actually no the set I refer to isn't Tam Sams creation. It was created by my sigung To Hon Cheung.