Black Tiger Cross Fist - 2nd Road

[commoner]

Hi All,

A few years back a friend of mine taught me a 7 star praying mantis form call "Black Tiger Cross Fist - 2nd Road". This form has about 70 something movements. It is a very nice set and it is an advance set to the "Black Tiger Cross Fist". Can any 7 star pm practioner confirm that there is such a set in the system?

[Young Mantis]

In the WHF lineage, I have never seen a mention of a form known as "Black Tiger Cross Fist - 2nd Road".

[GermanMantis]

Just as little do we from the LKW linege. Never come across this set. But sounds interesting, especially when it's an advance sets. 'cos Black Tiger Crossing is a mere basic set.

[commoner]

According to my friend this set came from the lineage of Chiu Chi Man. Chiu Chi Man is WHF's kung fu brother. He said that Chiu Chi Man either learned all of what Lo Kwong Yuk knows or at least major of the forms.

[KickingMantis]

You might want to get in touch with the New York mantis people from the Chui Luen Family. Sounds like something from their side.

[lamakwoklee]

The way I recall reading the story, WHF was paid handsomely by a wealthy businessman to devise a form that would impart some of the basics concepts of Northern Mantis. This is part of a specific tradition of correspondence learning in the Chinese martial arts, though I do not know the Chinese word for this practice.

WHF had never intended for the Black Tiger Cross fist to become an official form of his lineage. However some years later he had discovered that the form had been published in book form, had become quite popular, and taken on a life of its own. A more experienced Mantis practitioner may be able to confirm, or deny this tales validity.

I've never heard of a 2nd Route of this form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had been adopted into other HK Mantis traditions in the same manner that LKW's Whirling Step About Boxing has been.

[commoner]

Thanks for all of your inputs. I will try to see if I can find anybody of Chui Luen family. I heard one of his student Carl Albright in NYC has a website. I don't remember the site name, but will google it.

[LawClansman]

Greetings,
As mentioned on another thread,
My site is down for a couple of weeks. As far as I know, the Black Tiger Cross -Hak Fu Gao Cha, second road is only taught in the Chiu Chi Man line. I learned it some 30 years ago. It is based on the shorter first road but expands on the use of variations on the theme.

German Mantis: Check with Sifu Lee before making statements as there is enough confusion. I have the Kuen Po which is the same as Lee Kam Wing and - Yee Lo Hak Fu Gow Cha- is clearly included. Perhaps he no longer teaches this?
http://www.7starmantis.com

[LawClansman]

Forgot to mention,
many of our Kuen po was made into books with drawings so the forms are better recorded while the practitioners are still alive. Here is the Black Tiger Second Road book.

[commoner]

Sifu Carl,

Thank you for clarifying the form and showing us a picture of the form book. Does all of Chui Luen family's instructors also have the Kuen po?

[bungbukuen]

Lamkwoklee,

I heard Hei Hu Jiao Yi was something introduced a couple of generations before WHF. Some say Wang Rong Sheng. Just speculation.

But if I am not mistken it would be impossible to say WHF introduced/created this set if there were already teachers predating WHF and back who had it. Any thoughts?

[LawClansman]

The Kuen Po is in Chinese. So it is useless to those that cannot read it. Also many poetic names are used so that even if you can read Chinese you would not be able to learn from them in their entirety. That said, many of the instructors in our family have a copy of the kuen po of the forms they were taught.

[Young Mantis]

The way I recall reading the story, WHF was paid handsomely by a wealthy businessman to devise a form that would impart some of the basics concepts of Northern Mantis. This is part of a specific tradition of correspondence learning in the Chinese martial arts, though I do not know the Chinese word for this practice.

WHF had never intended for the Black Tiger Cross fist to become an official form of his lineage. However some years later he had discovered that the form had been published in book form, had become quite popular, and taken on a life of its own. A more experienced Mantis practitioner may be able to confirm, or deny this tales validity.

I've never heard of a 2nd Route of this form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had been adopted into other HK Mantis traditions in the same manner that LKW's Whirling Step About Boxing has been.

lamakwoklee,

I believe you have your form names confused. "Hahk Fu Gow Tsah" - Black Tiger Intercepting is traditional form that was passed down by Law Gwong Yuk. The story that you told was a well known joke within the WHF family regarding the form known as "Hahk Fu Chut Dong" - Black Tiger Exits the Cave.

Vance

[holymantis]

there is black tiger exits the cave in MAINLAND 7*mantis and in grandmaster wong kam hoong's lineage. but are diffrent. never heard of blacktiger intercepting?


regards holymantis

[Young Mantis]

there is black tiger exits the cave in MAINLAND 7*mantis and in grandmaster wong kam hoong's lineage. but are diffrent. never heard of blacktiger intercepting?


regards holymantis

holymantis,

Black Tiger Intercepting = 黑虎交叉

Hahk Fu Gow Tsah (Cantonese)
Hei Fu Jiao Cha (Mandarin)

a.k.a.
Black Tiger Intersectional Boxing
Black Tiger Criss-Cross

There have been a few discussions on this form lately on the Internet. I believe Brendan Tunks also confirmed that this form exists in PRC QiXing although not all families practice it.

There is a book by WHF student, Master Yuen Man Kai on this form and it is also shown by CCM student, Master Lee Kam Wing.

It is a pretty well known form. Maybe our translation confused you.

Vance