OT: surprise surprise, chemical weapons found in Iraq.

[Ben Gash]

The CIA don't really have secret detention centres, they farm the work out to Egypt and Uzbekistan, where they are tortured without the US getting it's hands physically dirty
As I always say, the problem with most debates is that the issue gets clouded by related issues which have no real significance to the debate. The debate here is about the validity of the article about white phosphorous and napalm, which even the most liberal anti-bushist people such as DJ are saying is flawed.
What do some of you have against shake and bake? You are not going to clear a bunker without killing everyone inside, and the targeted use of napalm is VERY quick. It's not like they're pumping Chlorine or Sarin into the bunker (which is what is implied by the title and tone).

[Judge Pen]

Did Iraq fly planes into american buildings? nope.
Are they sponsors of AlQ?

Didn't most of the 9/11 terrorist come from Saudi Arabia? Why didn't we go in there and clean house?

[David Jamieson]

Didn't most of the 9/11 terrorist come from Saudi Arabia? Why didn't we go in there and clean house?

Because Saudi Arabia did not attack the US. The US was attacked. But not by a sovereign nation. The case was built against Iraq after 911 and the media in the US and the meme from the whitehouse was that there was a connection. For some reason, people bought into that meme and the next thing you know, there you are...in the desert...getting you ass shot off.

[TonyM.]

Gassing people is so wrong. Burning them alive indiscriminately is perfectly OK.



www.veteransforpeace.org/

[Chief Fox]

What I find most disturbing in this whole mess is how divided the American people still are. While Bush IS loosing popularity, there are still people out there that think he is doing the right thing.

Think back to just after 9/11 for a second. Remember George Bush standing at ground zero with all of the fire fighters? I felt proud to be an american. I remember running through my neighborhood and counting all of the American flags flying. (It was well over 200) It felt like we were all unified. What has George Bush done to this unity? Well first he bombed the snot out of Afganistan and then he used the unity to fabricate a war against Iraq. Talk about misguided.

Here we are 3 years later. Still at war and our country is divided. Everyday, more and more people are loosing faith in their leader. Add to this a botched handling of a natural disaster, A CIA leak connected to the white house, more and more soilders dying, we're still at war, the entire continent of South America hates us and now this whole chemical warfare thing.

Honestly, how much more crap are we going to take from our government?

**steps down from soap box**

Sorry about that. Whew, I feel better now.

[whitefox]

Canada has no military might, we also have a small population comparatively (10% of the us) and little money. We also frequently lack the political will to do much more than pay lip service to the woes of the world and hold emergency debate sessions when something goes wrong.

And your doing a great job in representing on this thread....with your lip service that is

[David Jamieson]

And your doing a great job in representing on this thread....with your lip service that is

While I am Canadian, I am not Canada. Just like wherever you are is your home, but still, you are not your home.

Anyway, what is your point Whitefox? Are you one of those peeps that think everyone should just tow the line and fall into lockstep with the movement at play? That's pretty un-american if you ask me.

[whitefox]

That's pretty un-american if you ask me.

I didn't ask.... I do not tow a line or consider myself a "peep". A peep is a marshmellow candy bird that is usually bought around easter

[David Jamieson]

That's great, so you're here to cherry pick posts and rag on the poster with no further contribution to the discourse at hand then?

terrific. I'll just have to disregard your 'filler' then and continue to lock horns with those who understand how to do so.

[whitefox]

That's great, so you're here to cherry pick posts and rag on the poster with no further contribution to the discourse at hand then?

terrific. I'll just have to disregard your 'filler' then and continue to lock horns with those who understand how to do so.

I consider your posts as "filler" as well.

[David Jamieson]

I consider your posts as "filler" as well.

That's great, please feel free to put me on your ignore list.

[SanHeChuan]

The article didn't say that the WP or the "Napalm" like munitions were used to kill people, but it was implied. Your own imaginations took care of the rest. Because that was you want to believe. That the US gov are VILLIANS.

It also didn’t say that they were used together like one poster said. They were used in to separate instances. The WP was used in Fallujah as concealment and to smoke out targets. The article did not state that anyone died or were otherwise injured from direct contact with WP.

"The article states that US forces used white phosphorus rounds to flush out enemy fighters so that they could then be killed with (conventional) high explosive rounds." The US government, in other words, appears to admit that white phosphorus was used in Fallujah as a chemical weapon."

The article contradicts its self in this quote as it clearly states that they were killed with conventional High explosive rounds and not with any chemical weapons. Note how it says "appears" to be admitting the use of Chemical weapons. But they in fact do not admit any such thing. But the article wants you to think otherwise.

It says that the "Napalm" like munitions where used on two occasions. Napalm is use as modern slang for mark 77 firebombs, which is similar but not the same.

"dropped incendiary bombs (mark 77 firebombs) around the bridges over the Tigris and the Saddam Canal on the way to Baghdad."

"Embedded journalists reported that napalm (mark 77 firebombs) was dropped at Safwan Hill on the border with Kuwait. "

How ever it doesn't say that anyone was killed by these munitions but again you assume that people were the targets.

The article “seems” to be proving that the US used chemical weapons, but in reality only leads you to make assumptions. Hoping that you will assume the worst. You are being manipulated by both sides.

Oh and the same press that now claims no Iraqi/AQ conection was reporting that there was one before the war.

[SanHeChuan]

You aren’t seeing the big picture. We are never leaving Iraq. We never left Japan, Korea, or Europe. There is still a very strong military presence there, left over from bygone wars. We are paving the way for permanent military installations in Iraq right now. Al Asad airbase in Iraq has at least a 15 year lease on it, with the Air force making future plans for taking over the facility. The air force ain’t no squatters either, they mean to build, and they mean to stay.

Someone said why not invade all those other middle eastern countries who are ruled by dictators or asholes. Why do you think we invaded Iraq? Oil? Please don’t make me laugh. We did it with the hope of affecting change in the whole region, and if necessary lay the smack down on Iraq’s neighbors. However our motives were economically motivated. Stability is money at the geo-economic level. And what’s not stable? The middle east. A little war can buy you a whole lot of peace. The US supports Stability that’s why will are willing to support bad guys like saddam, so we don’t have to do like we have done in Iraq.

Bush may have steered this country into war with Machiavellian brilliance, but his motives were good ones, even if they weren’t the ones given.

And who ever thinks that the US should pull out of Iraq now couldn’t possibly be interested in the well fare of the Iraqi peoples. With out our presence there the country would fall into chaos. The very fragile interim government would collapse with out US pressure and support. With out us there would be no government in Iraq until some other military dictator like Saddam came along, or more likely until Iraq was swallowed up by Iran. Iraq is already in a shadow was against its neighbors. Most of the insurgents are not Iraqi at all but foreign fighters from its neighbors like Iran, and they are targeting Iraqis.

How many countries in the middle east do you think support democracy in Iraq?

If you think going to war with Iraq was wrong that’s fine, but leaving too soon, that’s worse.

[mickey]

Embarassing,

Chief Fox, you're right. I did not read it because some of those links posted on this forum have troubled my computer. I tried to avoid it this time by going by the heading and got burned.

Won't do that again.


mickey

[shrub]

........ and you wonder why so many people in the world think Bush is more dangerous to world's peace than Osama....... just read some of the redneck remarks here.