Monkey Footwork

[blackmantis]

Hi everybody! I've just started learning monkey footwork and was wondering if you people could give me some advice.

Could someone please explain the principles behind monkey footwork and describe some of the techniques used!

Many thanks!

S

[onyomi]

One basic difference is that the heel of the back foot is often raised off the ground in the stances of monkey forms. This makes the usual gong-bu (bow stance) become a kuahu-shi (tiger-straddling stance) and the mabu (horse stance) into a kuama-shi (horse-straddling stance), both shifting the weight further forward and more onto the lead foot than in the usual stances. There is also a lot of rapid retreat and advance, often with one foot on the ball, like in the dingzi-bu, which is like an empty stance but with the empty foot right next to the weighted foot. A common combination is a retreat into dingzi-bu followed by a jump forward into a kuama-shi. Just a start.

[blackmantis]

Okay thanks onyomi, is it a 7* mantis type of footwork or is it used in all mantis styles?

S

[onyomi]

Yes, this is footwork I learned from studying the 7* form, Baiyuan Chudong (White Monkey Exits the Cave). But I think all Praying Mantis styles and forms have a fair degree of the monkey footwork built in. These forms are just ones that concentrate on it particularly. I know there are at least three monkey forms in 7*, the other two being White Monkey Steals the Peach and White Monkey Presents Fruit. Do any of you non-7* practice these forms or any other forms that are specifically monkey?

[El Tejon]

Here's what helped me:

1. Break it down. First, just step with feet; then, step and right before set foot down, hop with back foot; finally do it all at once (remember to kick self in butt twice);

2. Think forward, not upward.

3. Do not worry about monkey stepping into next county. Don't worry about the distance, just get the technique down.

Principles? Get away, especially at angle! Works great when city bus is about to run over you in crosswalk too.

Practice hard and I'm certain you'll do great.

[Indestructible]

Here's what helped me:

1. Break it down. First, just step with feet; then, step and right before set foot down, hop with back foot; finally do it all at once (remember to kick self in butt twice);

....

Sounds like what my teacher call nothern stepping. We use it as a cover out to strike the groin, or the face if were in the process of a take down.

[mooyingmantis]

As a Monkey style Kung Fu stylist of nearly thirty years, I must say that I have seen very little Monkey footwork in Praying Mantis. In fact, I can think of only one footwork manuever that would be considered similar to Monkey style.
I believe what some refer to as Monkey footwork is actually Ape footwork and perhaps comes from Tong Bei (though this is conjecture).

Mooyingmantis

[Three Harmonies]

I think some of you all are misunderstanding what is meant by "monkey" footwork.
Monkey footwork is NOT a fixed/single technique. When you hear a reference to "monkey" in Mantis (perhaps other styles as well, I can only speak with minimal authority on Mantis and Xing Yi) it is usually refering to tricky, deceptive, confusing type stepping. Agile, light, quick are also verbs that can be used.
Monkeys are deceptive and tricky. They will not fight head on, but rather wait until their opponent is not paying attention before attacking. They will fein fear and run away, only to turn on their opponent at the last second to retaliate.
Again this is how I have been taught. In Xing Yi the monkey form (Hou Xing) is based on the deceptive nature of the monkey. I know in the Wutan organization I was taught a specific stepping method that they referred to as Monkey Footwork so maybe that is what you are talking about. But with Hu laoshi, his explanation is the same as Tim's (my Xing Yi coach).

Hope this helps
Jake

[phoenixdog]

This is subject that I have given much thought to. I would agree that the monkey footwork in mantis is not like the footwork in monkey. Monkey in mantis is the agility and leg quickness of the monkey. I studied mi tsung i which is a true ape based fighting art. In mi tsung you fight very,very low to the ground. Mantis has way to much intricate and effective handwork to stay very low for long.You don't see many mantis forms that stay inches off the ground. Mi tsung i has forms where you stay completely on the ground. Monkey in hsing i on the other hand is more of the spirit of the monkey than the tactics. Loose,fast,quick turning,leaping low to high and then back low.If you read Smith's "Methods and Masters, there is a good description of monkey. The weakness of monkey is in the hand techniques which is why mantis hands, monkey feet is such a great combination.
Low to high. High to low.

[Three Harmonies]

PD
So when you say you are completely on the ground, is this like a Di Tang set?
Thanks
Jake

[El Tejon]

*kicks rocks*

Jake, I apparently misread the original post. I was under the (mis)understanding that he was asking about a specific step not the overall tactical use of monkey footwork.

As to the original post, cannot answer that. Still working on that, practice, practice, practice (and run and jump a lot of rope). Work it into sparring when I can, time and effort, don't you know.

Well, save that reply in case someone does ask about what I answered.

[mooyingmantis]

... The weakness of monkey is in the hand techniques which is why mantis hands, monkey feet is such a great combination.
Low to high. High to low.

Pheonixdog,
I am sure you meant no disrespect, but I must disagree with your statement. I see no weakness in Monkey hand techniques. In fact, some Monkey hand techniques are quite similar to PM hand techniques. To which style of Monkey boxing do you refer? There are several: Tai Shing Pek Kwar, Bei Hou Quan, Nou Hou Quan, Wu Shu Monkey, etc..
I am not trying to start a pi$$ing contest, I just wonder how you formed your opinion, which you certainly have a right to.

Mooying

[phoenixdog]

In reply to Jake,yes similar to Di Tang "grand earth",another ape style.In reply to Mooying,meaning from a technical point of view that monkey in general does not have "tai mountain crashes down" type hand techniques. I think this is why Pek Kwa was combined with Da Sheng. From my mi tsung training I would say that monkey hand work uses more ripping,gouging,clawing where mantis handwork would rather hook and chop. Mantis monkey footwork is to get close and take down where mi tsung monkey footwork allows you to fight completely on the ground where your head is protected and you can reach the opponent but the opponent cannot reach you.There are drills in both styles that are identical but I don't see it in the forms or theory.

[mooyingmantis]

Pheonixdog,
You are correct, the tai san ngat ding theory of the Eight Hard principles is not in Nou Hou Quan. And I have never seen it in Wu Shu styled Monkey boxing. I can't speak for TSPK monkey, so another will have to comment on that.
Though I still do not see how this makes any Monkey style weak. We just have other "hard" methods.
Thanks for sharing your reasoning!
Mooyingmantis

[Three Harmonies]

Silly monkeys! Tricks are for apes, but real skill is held for the Mantis Fist of DEATH!!! Everyone know that everything is weak, besides the Mantis style of course

Cheers
Jake