Five Animals Kung Fu?

[green_willow]

In this case, last post equals LOSER with a capital L . Now I've already conceded my loss. I surrendered at the comment: Seriously how can you discuss more beyond that? So in this thread again, the last post went to the loser, since I already conceded. That's my case and point. Does it add up to pure maths?

You're the one who wanted to talk about maths and you're also the only one who's keeping score according to some rules only you know. Honestly old timer show some maturity you're the publisher of Kungfu magazine for crying out loud.

Anyway I've e-mailed afew eagle claws schools to invit them into this discussion. I think they'll be the best to know why they don't do UFC. That way, everyone learns something, everyone wins - it's Parato Optimal.

[Lohanhero]

....Sooo.... five animals gongfu.....



dont know how much you can realy discuss a style on a forum, you will always get people who have different ideas. and if that different idea is incorrect in your veiw you have two options, think to yourself "you do what you do and i will do what I do." or defend your veiw point. the only problem with the last one is the "winner" isnt always the correct one, but the loudest person. no real winners there. offends your masters to fight against eachother in this way.

5 animals of shaolin, Leopard snake crane tiger Dragon. I have heard that some teach as dragon first. originaly formed for health, while had defencive ability it was later that was reformed into a fighting art. from my study each 5 animals where seperate through out the time when it was hard to find good and responcible students to teach, the master sometimes had to wait till old age to find this student worthy of teaching. but as the master is old could only try and teach as much as posible before the master dies. the students wishing to continue what their masters taught, took what they knew and formed 5 animals combined, calling this 5 animals fist. *realy short my appologys*

on effectivness, who is another to speak of effectivness. humans seem to be naturaly deffencive, wishing to pull down things that are not the same as what they have learnt or grew up learning. so we have people who have studied different arts coming up with what they see as bad. even if they have not seen much. *nothings realy wrong with this ofcause, but all comes down to what you see as correct*
as has been said on many topics, it comes down to the person and not the style. the style gives the person many opitunitys to learn many things, but the same as in your younger days of school, how much do you remember or use of your schooling, art, history ect...

"divert the opponents strikes/energy and attack openings this leads to"
from here you have the different "ways of attack" from clawing and tearing of tiger to quick stabing of the snake.

5 animals frolic methode as was spoken earlyer are not the same as the shaolin 5 animals as these are the Deer, monkey, Bear, Tiger and Dragon. each one is the play of the animal, I have a VCD on this and is quite interesting as the guy in it, sleeps lyes down like each animal, climbs trees like the monkey, ect... As Mr Gene Ching has mentioned in different words, it comes down to mind/thought of the person playing these, becoming back to nature. also as I had read in your issue along time ago with the master of qigong from taiwan (iron crotch master) sorry i forgot name. in this he spoke that animals are interesting, they are naturaly able to heal themselfs faster then humans. look at the way many of them walk, on four legs. for us moving on two legs all of our organs are being pushed downwards and ontop of eachother. by doing some excercises of the animals we can help this pressure... (i hope i am remebering this correctly)


...

just on another note, iv noticed more and more latly. people seem to be so wraped up in exact wordings of things and need to be told the meanings. as with the animals it comes back to thought. look past words and see what you feel is the meaning. dont over think it, just read and feel what is being said.

"a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet"

sorry, iv writen all over the place. now i shall vanish again :P

have fun everyone, train from your heart, with whatever your goals are and you will be doing yourself a good deed. but dont push your goals on others.
unless your the sifu/shifu or gao lin/jiao lian then its the student that needs to learn from what you know :P

[GeneChing]

g_w: There's nothing more mature than conceding defeat. I tried. I let you win. But then you posted after my "last post is the loser" post. So you lost. You wouldn't let me lose. Now I have to post again to lose. Man, the conceding defeat stuff is harder than I thought. I guess I'm just not used to it.

You don't want to talk maths now? That's going to make it tough to get that first PhD...

[green_willow]

g_w: There's nothing more mature than conceding defeat. I tried. I let you win. But then you posted after my "last post is the loser" post. So you lost. You wouldn't let me lose. Now I have to post again to lose. Man, the conceding defeat stuff is harder than I thought. I guess I'm just not used to it.

You don't want to talk maths now? That's going to make it tough to get that first PhD...

Wat ever.....

....Sooo.... five animals gongfu.....



dont know how much you can realy discuss a style on a forum, you will always get people who have different ideas. and if that different idea is incorrect in your veiw you have two options, think to yourself "you do what you do and i will do what I do." or defend your veiw point. the only problem with the last one is the "winner" isnt always the correct one, but the loudest person. no real winners there. offends your masters to fight against eachother in this way.

5 animals of shaolin, Leopard snake crane tiger Dragon. I have heard that some teach as dragon first. originaly formed for health, while had defencive ability it was later that was reformed into a fighting art. from my study each 5 animals where seperate through out the time when it was hard to find good and responcible students to teach, the master sometimes had to wait till old age to find this student worthy of teaching. but as the master is old could only try and teach as much as posible before the master dies. the students wishing to continue what their masters taught, took what they knew and formed 5 animals combined, calling this 5 animals fist. *realy short my appologys*

on effectivness, who is another to speak of effectivness. humans seem to be naturaly deffencive, wishing to pull down things that are not the same as what they have learnt or grew up learning. so we have people who have studied different arts coming up with what they see as bad. even if they have not seen much. *nothings realy wrong with this ofcause, but all comes down to what you see as correct*
as has been said on many topics, it comes down to the person and not the style. the style gives the person many opitunitys to learn many things, but the same as in your younger days of school, how much do you remember or use of your schooling, art, history ect...

"divert the opponents strikes/energy and attack openings this leads to"
from here you have the different "ways of attack" from clawing and tearing of tiger to quick stabing of the snake.

5 animals frolic methode as was spoken earlyer are not the same as the shaolin 5 animals as these are the Deer, monkey, Bear, Tiger and Dragon. each one is the play of the animal, I have a VCD on this and is quite interesting as the guy in it, sleeps lyes down like each animal, climbs trees like the monkey, ect... As Mr Gene Ching has mentioned in different words, it comes down to mind/thought of the person playing these, becoming back to nature. also as I had read in your issue along time ago with the master of qigong from taiwan (iron crotch master) sorry i forgot name. in this he spoke that animals are interesting, they are naturaly able to heal themselfs faster then humans. look at the way many of them walk, on four legs. for us moving on two legs all of our organs are being pushed downwards and ontop of eachother. by doing some excercises of the animals we can help this pressure... (i hope i am remebering this correctly)


...

just on another note, iv noticed more and more latly. people seem to be so wraped up in exact wordings of things and need to be told the meanings. as with the animals it comes back to thought. look past words and see what you feel is the meaning. dont over think it, just read and feel what is being said.

"a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet"

sorry, iv writen all over the place. now i shall vanish again :P

have fun everyone, train from your heart, with whatever your goals are and you will be doing yourself a good deed. but dont push your goals on others.
unless your the sifu/shifu or gao lin/jiao lian then its the student that needs to learn from what you know :P

Well said and all good. On the topic of effectiveness to mean unarmed self defence - how good is 5 animal kung fu when someone is well trained?

How effective is it in sports combat such as UFC (where there is grappling & striking) or K1 which is just striking? and why?

[Lohanhero]

how effective is an elbow? a punch? finger strikes?
all of these are in 5 animals.

think of a person who is drunk, no inhabitions (i think its the word) the mind is key to good fighting, be relaxed and your able to move with confidence, if you have no confidence you become unsure of your movements...

now imagin you can create a nature within yourself, take the thought and attitude of a leopard. the only thing is you can loose your control and very much harm the opponent.

[Ravenshaw]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

You can really get a sense from green_willow's posts that he thinks he's winning a debate. I'm sorry, green_willow, but very few people are debating with you. The truth is this topic is so old that no one really cares to discuss it at such length anymore. Consider that, then ask yourself "well, if Gene Ching is not really interested in debating with me... why is he posting so much?" Can you figure it out?

I'll give you another shot at this topic.

I won't address most of your points, but I'll just repeat what someone else already told you. The problem lies in your assumptions: (a) because you don't know any Eagle Claw users in UFC, (b) Eagle Claw can't work in UFC. Now stop and think, "is that logical?"

Here's the other part: (c) only styles that work in UFC are practical, therefore, (d) Eagle Claw (see point b) is not practical.

If you can't figure it out from there...

Well, have fun.

[GeneChing]

Trolls hate being trolled. It's like looking in a mirror. If you think you might be a troll, it's always good to look in a mirror. Here in forumland, the mirror is the previous posts. When you find a lot of responses to your posts saying "like so and so already said" or "I'll just repeat what someone else already told you" there's a good chance you're not listening in a trollish fashion. Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists, nor the stand of a mirror bright. Since all is empty from the beginning, where can the dust alight?

But for anyone who might still be chipping on this ol' debate, here's another analogy. It's not "maths", it's musical. Let's parallel TCMA to classical music and MMA to contemporary pop music. So if there's no classical music in pop music, then classical music is useless right? I don't hear cellos on Billboard's top ten so they must be useless. We should only study what is real, what is on the top ten. We should only study pop music. How good is a classical musician when pitted against a well trained pop star? Would Phillip Glass be able to take Britney Spears?

[green_willow]

(a) because you don't know any Eagle Claw users in UFC, (b) Eagle Claw can't work in UFC. Now stop and think, "is that logical?"

Logic would suggest that Eagle Claw should work well in the UFC because the contest is about striking & grappling and Eagle Claw has extensive techniques in both. I'm not saying that everyone who uses Eagle Claw in the UFC should win - just that it is a style that should be represented.

The question is, if it is useful in the UFC why isn't it represented there? what do you think.

But for anyone who might still be chipping on this ol' debate, here's another analogy. It's not "maths", it's musical. Let's parallel TCMA to classical music and MMA to contemporary pop music. So if there's no classical music in pop music, then classical music is useless right? I don't hear cellos on Billboard's top ten so they must be useless. We should only study what is real, what is on the top ten. We should only study pop music. How good is a classical musician when pitted against a well trained pop star? Would Phillip Glass be able to take Britney Spears?

Not a good analogy because the outcome of judging musicians is alot more subjective than a martial arts contexst. It's pretty clear cut when one person is KOed or gives up or cannot defend himself / herself or the ref has to stop the fight for safety reasons. It can be abit subjective when it is scored on points. Usually UFC matches is pretty clear cut who's the winner.

[5Animals1Path]

Round and round the toilet bowl it goes...



Is there anyone else who practices 5 Animals here, or do most of you guys just know the general history behind it's creation and it's theory?

[green_willow]

Round and round the toilet bowl it goes...
Is there anyone else who practices 5 Animals here, or do most of you guys just know the general history behind it's creation and it's theory?

I'm interested to know how a style like tiger which relies on clawing the face actually works in real life. Or crane which pecks at the eyes. I mean what if your attacker had glasses on, I mean not everyone wears contacts - althought a lot of ppl do.

[Lohanhero]

i am a five animals student, though I have just started on the first animal, for us the leopard. first 4 years are shaolin chuen forms, which holds the different hand formations of each animals in them also. fingers that are trained can do alot of damage. but reading your questions of "how it works in real life", are you already answering yourselfs, if your useing the crane strikes, you think the only way is to attack the eyes? if someone is wearing glasses or even goggles, are you going to stand there and say "oh my god oh my god" and dance in a circle?if you punch, do you only hit one area or can u change to the situation.

leopard fist, dig in the joints of the fingers to the side of the jaw, neck, kidneys, use to hook any attacks.

snake, sink your fingers into muscle, eyes, throat (above adams apple is best as some can push against lower on the neck) underarm, hitting pressure points(opening person up by shifting their attack and launch fingers into places such as, just above the nipple)

crane, cranes wings used to hook, however once you have strengthend your fingers they can damage anything you hook. for me i was playing with someone who kept throwing punches and my fingers went into the middle of the knuckles and it became swollen quite quickly. crane beak are very easy to use as has two hands moving at once, shifting till you have oppening. just like all the others you can hit anywhere, eyes, temple, nerves behind ear-jaw connection, under nose, ect.

tiger, claw used to grasp genitals, dig into muscles in legs, stomach, arms, flesh under armpits, grab throat, hook jaw... when people hear slash or scratch to face i dont think they are realising that at tiger your fingers should be very strong and fingers are not that wide, sold small objects moving quickly across face do move then just make you flinch. a fav of my sifu is to use this quick slashing movement across the throat as soon as you shift their hands out the way... scares the poop out of you each time :P

dragon i cant say anything about but was shown once, shift person to one side to grab the head with two hands, fingers tense, then give a quick rip to different directions.

ofcause this is nothing that hasnt been said before, and is still in the basics of each of the other 4 animals. one thing i like about leopard is the force that is generated by your waist, sink low and hit to pelvis and make them pee blood :P

sorry im not sure if this thread is still on 5 animal topic or is just being used as a debate topic for "real world fighting"... wow in the real world people much punch and kick differently... either that or the people who fight in the streets here must not be using "real world fighting methods" perhaps someone should advertise somthing for them.

[GeneChing]

g-w: My analogy works. While music may be subjective, Billboard's top ten is not. It's based on sales. And to tell you the truth, the current popularity of MMA is based on sales too. Right now, there's a lot of money behind it. Master David Charng addressed this in our Jan Feb 2006 cover story.

As for using a crane peck with people with glasses, you've just blown your street cred. That's not good for someone arguing for MMA as reality fighting over traditional (but rather typical). Ever hear that old saying "you wouldn't hit someone with glasses, would ya?" That's because glasses are extremely vulnerable in a fight. They do not add protection. It increases the eye and nose target area. I've been hit with sunglasses on and it sucks. I always take glasses off. A lot of people think that a technique like a crane peck needs to pluck the eye out like in Kill Bill or something. That's not true at all. You just need to trigger the tearing function and that's not hard at all. Once the opponent tears, the vision is blurred and it provides ample opportunity for a follow-up attack. This goes back to the earlier discussion of whether the eyes are easy to hit or not. If the opponent has glasses, it's very easy.

[green_willow]

You are a funny one - your sifu is probably a comedian.

leopard fist, dig in the joints of the fingers to the side of the jaw, neck, kidneys, use to hook any attacks.

That can be said with any fist - why the leapord's paw - guess it just sounds so much more powerful. like - I'm a leapord,

snake, sink your fingers into muscle, eyes, throat (above adams apple is best as some can push against lower on the neck) underarm, hitting pressure points(opening person up by shifting their attack and launch fingers into places such as, just above the nipple)

How do you suppose you slither up someone's arm to strike at the arm pit. It's easier for your attacker to smack you around the head before you can do that. Ouch....... striking the nipples - dangerous technique be careful, you might send the wrong idea to your attacker and made to submit in ways you never thought possible.

crane, cranes wings used to hook, however once you have strengthend your fingers they can damage anything you hook. for me i was playing with someone who kept throwing punches and my fingers went into the middle of the knuckles and it became swollen quite quickly. crane beak are very easy to use as has two hands moving at once, shifting till you have oppening. just like all the others you can hit anywhere, eyes, temple, nerves behind ear-jaw connection, under nose, ect.

You're trying to hit very small moving targets. What's under the nose? their mouth - you'll have a better chance kissing them LOL.

tiger, claw used to grasp genitals, dig into muscles in legs, stomach, arms, flesh under armpits, grab throat, hook jaw... when people hear slash or scratch to face i dont think they are realising that at tiger your fingers should be very strong and fingers are not that wide, sold small objects moving quickly across face do move then just make you flinch. a fav of my sifu is to use this quick slashing movement across the throat as soon as you shift their hands out the way... scares the poop out of you each time :P

I guess this is the part where you go real nasty and grab them by the balls. Hahahaha you want to claw thieir stomach - their 6 pack and scratch their face? You might send the wrong message and made to submit in ways you never thought possible. But seriously in a real fight scratches don't do much - just try getting a frozen chicken and see how much damage your claws can do.

dragon i cant say anything about but was shown once, shift person to one side to grab the head with two hands, fingers tense, then give a quick rip to different directions.

Try that with a punching bag and see what damage your claws can do. Isn't it easier just to hit them many time in the head - then to a) grab them with both hands and then b) let it rip.

ofcause this is nothing that hasnt been said before, and is still in the basics of each of the other 4 animals. one thing i like about leopard is the force that is generated by your waist, sink low and hit to pelvis and make them pee blood :P

Wow if you truely are a leapord don't you think they'll be peeing their pants and running away before you get a chance to hit them. You're kung fu is a joke - it reads like a badly written shaw bros movie script.

[Lohanhero]

hahaha, yeah what was i thinking, how could you hit someone in the face, wow you have shown me the light, hiting someone in the chest, Noo what the hell am i saying... yeah only the leopard fist is Hax0r-ific.

quick lets all get a gun and blow away our enemys cause its alot easyer then doing anything else.

im sorry, my mistake for coming back to a martial art forum.

[green_willow]

hahaha, yeah what was i thinking, how could you hit someone in the face, wow you have shown me the light, hiting someone in the chest, Noo what the hell am i saying... yeah only the leopard fist is Hax0r-ific.

quick lets all get a gun and blow away our enemys cause its alot easyer then doing anything else.

im sorry, my mistake for coming back to a martial art forum.

I think your crane beak is over rated.