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Thread: Five Animals Kung Fu?

  1. #16
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    hmmm, seriously though guys, what can we tell this lad about 5 animals kungfu.

    lemme start.

    5 animals are the template of old shaolin kungfu.

    the template relates to expression of energies in a metaphorical sense, but also there is a measure of mimicry into the human form of the said animals.

    the five are:

    Dragon, Tiger, Snake, Leopard and Crane.

    In metaphorical terms

    Tiger- develops strength , muscle and bone

    Crane - develops sinews, flexibility

    Leopard - develops speed and accuity along with endurance

    Snake - develops coiling power, breathing and accuracy in strikes

    Dragon- Is an amalgamation of all the traist of the above.

    Forms are driven by the principles and not by sequence. However, the principles of the metaphors provide similar shape in practice. Tiger forms tend to be strength emphasized and relentless. Because this is how a tiger is. Transpose that tiger onto a human form and you will have a style that can be called tiger. Crane the same thing, leopard and so on etc etc.

    There are of course other animals such as are found in say Hsing I (xingyi) or other styles that capitalize on the same metaphor principled driving points.

    Five animals kungfu practice should be able to take anyone of any physicality and bring them all to a similar level of functional ability by touching on the variations found within the animal flavours.

    One could go deeper into the study by looking at allegorical tales of the animals or by seeking further understanding of the principles and how they mete out as a trait of such and such an animal.

    The original is said to be a set of qigongs known as 5 animals frolic. It was called this because while doing these gongs, people were said to move into a trance like state and their actions and motions resembled those of the animals descibed above.

    Mind you, Dragons have always been a composite aggregate of many other animals and this would be used for motion or movement thatresembled all or a few of the animals.

    One could also bring in the 5 elements theory to fit with the five animals model and thereby create and even more complex ideology in that regards.

    Anyway, Your basic Shaolin Kungfu will have contained within it's curriculum these five animals and in some cases all 5 will be expressed in a single form such as in Hung Gar Ng Ying Kuen or like in Wing Lam's 4 lower tigers style each of the animals has a whole form dedicated to it to focus on those attributes developed through the practice of each.

    I think 5 animals kungfu is a good practice regimen for a fighter when combined with modern training and opportunity to explore the techniques in a live fighting situation such as san da or sparring.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #17
    The Yees Hung Gar school in Chinaton NYC teaches 5 animal. It is a very good school and good for self defence. They do lost of conditioning and the system makes you very strong. They worked on the traditional techneques against comen attacks. They spar as well. I dont think the average 5 amimal student could hand with a desent boxer unless they trained and competeted in San Shou which some of them at this school did.

  3. #18
    I found a teacher and he started teaching me the first part of the form. I'll come back here if I have any questions.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c
    The Yees Hung Gar school in Chinaton NYC teaches 5 animal. It is a very good school and good for self defence. They do lost of conditioning and the system makes you very strong. They worked on the traditional techneques against comen attacks. They spar as well. I dont think the average 5 amimal student could hand with a desent boxer unless they trained and competeted in San Shou which some of them at this school did.
    Wiz,
    I dont train 5 animals, I train tang lang. However I believe that a practitioner of any style of gung fu should be able to defeat a boxer with relative ease. My reasoning is this: I used to box and train quite heavily for boxing, amatuer boxing that is. I loved boxing, and never thought of quitting, that is until I discovered CMA. And ill tell you why I chose CMA over boxing, because it is complete. It entails everything you need to properly defend yourself, whereas boxing is quite limited in its range and arsenal. Hows someone going to punch me before i can kick them? Its not going to happen. But i could have a screwed perception on it simply because i have the best of both worlds. Let me know how you guys fell about this.
    Speed is the essence of power~Trey

    www.wutangbrunswick.com
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey
    Wiz,
    I dont train 5 animals, I train tang lang. However I believe that a practitioner of any style of gung fu should be able to defeat a boxer with relative ease. My reasoning is this: I used to box and train quite heavily for boxing, amatuer boxing that is. I loved boxing, and never thought of quitting, that is until I discovered CMA. And ill tell you why I chose CMA over boxing, because it is complete. It entails everything you need to properly defend yourself, whereas boxing is quite limited in its range and arsenal. Hows someone going to punch me before i can kick them? Its not going to happen. But i could have a screwed perception on it simply because i have the best of both worlds. Let me know how you guys fell about this.
    For me it's the opposite, I used to do boxing and other ma, then I went into cma and now my training is a hybrid of a lot of things, but boxing has taken a key place because of the sheer value of the routines associated with developing the skills required.

    cma may be complete, not in all formats, there's a lot of bits and pieces schools of patched together methods. May look complete because there is a lot, but in truth, the majority of any style of martial art is incomplete in the sense of the word regarding what you fill your toolbox with.

    If someone wants to learn to fight competitively, I would recommend boxing over cma.

    why?

    With boxing you will have a reasonable amount of ability in boxing and defending yourself inside of 1 and1/2 years.

    With tma, this is barring innate talent stretch out to sometime longer than 5 years.

    Cma is a crap shoot in my experience. There is a lot of exciting things in it, but it is difficult to know if what you are getting and practicing has tangible value. especially when it gets wrapped in a lot of mysticism which can be a little too prevalent in a tma school whereas in the boxing gym, it's you vs you...and that other guy occasionally. Much more in the moment type of reality that zen people like to talk about and sit with, but I've found don't personally have the stomach for when it comes right down to it. No offense to those who find themselves in the sh.it and practice zen.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #21
    Well I understand where your coming from ... kind of. My school doesnt get caught up in all of the mysterious wrapped in a shroud kind of things. So really cma to me is more complete. Not to mention that I was a well above average boxer, so that might have something to do with the way i feel. Cma to me is really alot more challenging, and i believe if you devote yourself then you can become very proficient inside a year and a half or whatever you stated. But again that could just be because I already had fighting experience from boxing, and not to mention wrestling although i do not think that wrestling is all that proficient when it comews to self defense.
    Speed is the essence of power~Trey

    www.wutangbrunswick.com
    ---------------------------------------------------

    http://myspace-693.vo.llnwd.net/0018...87178693_m.jpg
    http://myspace-698.vo.llnwd.net/0021...18999698_m.jpg
    ^
    ^^
    ^^^
    ^^^^
    ^^^^^
    PICTURE OF ME HALF NAKED!!! LOL!

  7. #22
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson
    For me it's the opposite, I used to do boxing and other ma, then I went into cma and now my training is a hybrid of a lot of things, but boxing has taken a key place because of the sheer value of the routines associated with developing the skills required.

    cma may be complete, not in all formats, there's a lot of bits and pieces schools of patched together methods. May look complete because there is a lot, but in truth, the majority of any style of martial art is incomplete in the sense of the word regarding what you fill your toolbox with.

    If someone wants to learn to fight competitively, I would recommend boxing over cma.

    why?

    With boxing you will have a reasonable amount of ability in boxing and defending yourself inside of 1 and1/2 years.

    With tma, this is barring innate talent stretch out to sometime longer than 5 years.

    Cma is a crap shoot in my experience. There is a lot of exciting things in it, but it is difficult to know if what you are getting and practicing has tangible value.
    Perhaps you are in the wrong school, and i say this with all seriousness.
    I should stay out of this but i cannot help it. I have trained five animals under a good Sifu. It might have been a short time but it was enough to know it can be very effective. Now to address mystery. Quite simply there is none. If someone claims there is they just do not understand CMA.

    It is all inside the fighter, all of it, internal external everything. The only thing mysterious to me is 2 fold, number one how people miss the simplicity in the arts, and number 2 how the h ell did god make our bodies so capable to begin with.

    I am not a mystic nor do i Think Buddha was (my opinion).
    But what is more simple than Tang Lang with eyes, throat, groin, keep your door closed and attack attack attack these soft targets until it is over?

    Or what is more simple than Ba Ji, throw your whole body into every strike and increasing pressure the closer you get until you involve the entire body as a striking weapon , just before you plow him over ripping biting and gouging at his flesh?
    I see nothing mystical about fighting like a Tiger, Snake, Crane, dragon, eagle, mantis, bear, etc.

    They all claw rip and aggressively attack to save their lives or take their prey. They all use different methods that coincide with human ability due to talent or body size (vis-a-vie) different animal different master).

    The Chinese thought of something so simple it is profound.
    What drives the animal to fight to the last breath? Let us perfect this and we will be as resilient in battle as they are.
    Last edited by Sifu Darkfist; 12-28-2005 at 10:01 PM.

  8. #23
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    as for competition

    It is the same the same power strikes, the same speed only you have gloves. The same tenacity the same drive to live (no biting tyson taught us that) etc.

  9. #24
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    It's all good!
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  10. #25
    Would you say that tiger claw kung fu is therefore some how lacking without the speed of the leapord or agility of the crane? Is there a specific form of kung fu called snake boxing or is another name for it wing chun?

    How does dragon fit into the five animal kung fu. If it consist of the abilities of all the other animals why bother learning tiger or crane?

    Is it the case the dragon is jack of all trades but master of none?

    Such that say a tiger versus crane is a contest between brute strngth & aggerssion versus agility and flexibility.... like who will win.....????????

  11. #26
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    Gotta hand it to Mortal1

    He called this thread on post #3. Nice forum fu, Mortal1.

    Try my monkey style
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_willow
    Would you say that tiger claw kung fu is therefore some how lacking without the speed of the leapord or agility of the crane? Is there a specific form of kung fu called snake boxing or is another name for it wing chun?

    How does dragon fit into the five animal kung fu. If it consist of the abilities of all the other animals why bother learning tiger or crane?

    Is it the case the dragon is jack of all trades but master of none?

    Such that say a tiger versus crane is a contest between brute strngth & aggerssion versus agility and flexibility.... like who will win.....????????
    when you were born could you crawl? when you were finally crawling, could you walk? when you learned to walk finally, could you run with ease? when you came to be able to run, could you jump? how far could you jump?

    each animal is a part of the whole. One cannot move to the top of the teachings and have complete understanding without understanding equally all the parts that make the final form.

    All methods that are of any value are progressive in how they are learned.

    In other words, your dragon style wouldn't be much if you didn't understand all the other components of it and that understanding takes time and practice.

    people without patience for that will not get past the gate far enough to actually have a real look at what it is they are doing because they will always wrestle with questins of what's missing and the like.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson
    For me it's the opposite, I used to do boxing and other ma, then I went into cma and now my training is a hybrid of a lot of things, but boxing has taken a key place because of the sheer value of the routines associated with developing the skills required.

    cma may be complete, not in all formats, there's a lot of bits and pieces schools of patched together methods. May look complete because there is a lot, but in truth, the majority of any style of martial art is incomplete in the sense of the word regarding what you fill your toolbox with.

    If someone wants to learn to fight competitively, I would recommend boxing over cma.

    why?

    With boxing you will have a reasonable amount of ability in boxing and defending yourself inside of 1 and1/2 years.

    With tma, this is barring innate talent stretch out to sometime longer than 5 years.

    Cma is a crap shoot in my experience. There is a lot of exciting things in it, but it is difficult to know if what you are getting and practicing has tangible value. especially when it gets wrapped in a lot of mysticism which can be a little too prevalent in a tma school whereas in the boxing gym, it's you vs you...and that other guy occasionally. Much more in the moment type of reality that zen people like to talk about and sit with, but I've found don't personally have the stomach for when it comes right down to it. No offense to those who find themselves in the sh.it and practice zen.
    David: I enjoy reading the keen insights you have. My education is an ongoing process.
    Figure Eight

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson
    I think 5 animals kungfu is a good practice regimen for a fighter when combined with modern training and opportunity to explore the techniques in a live fighting situation such as san da or sparring.

    I wholeheartedly concur.
    Simon McNeil
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    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  15. #30
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    Animals animals animals

    We've done some special issues devoted to animal styles, although we haven't done one in a while. Our last one was our July Aug 2003. In it, our copy editor, Gary W. Shockley pondered the literality/practicality of animal practices in a piece called Excuse me, Master, but is that a Bug in My Style, which is relevant to our discussion here. His main point was to look at animal styles that couldn't really map on to human bodies - mantis mostly. Seriously, to really fight like a mantis, you'd have to have six legs, and your body would have to be segmented into a head, thorax and abdomen, so Gary pondered what was really meant by animal styles.

    Lately, I've been doing a lot of xingyi, so animal styles have been on the forefront of my mind. In 2004, I was shown the Shaolin 5 animals, but it didn't stick - while I remember the form more or less, the energies were too elusive for me at that time. Anyway, my take on animals is not one of practicality, not what would work on the street or in the octogon, or however the narrow-minded martial artist defines 'practical' nowadays. To me, animal styles are more about spirituality. Remember the root of the word 'animal' is 'anima' - the soul. While there are clearly some very practical techniques in animal styles - practical in a fight, I mean - animal styles are really more like shamanism. It's a spiritual connection to nature, or a symbol of nature, an attempt to find personal identity and touch the divine. To look at animal practices literally is naive, especially where dragon style is concerned. In this perspective, it's not about whether leopard is faster or tiger is more fierce. It's about what resonates with your soul. That's the real treasure of CMA - it's so vast, so deep, so much history, that if you look long enough, you're bound to find something that fits your spirit.
    Gene Ching
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    Author of Shaolin Trips
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