How effective is Wing Chun?

[Ultimatewingchun]

Of course they're the best targets...that's not the issue.

It's getting to them that's the problem.

And without constant hard contact sparring/grappling/self defense moves against a SKILLED RESISTING opponent on a regular basis - and without a whole bunch of moves (and targeted targets) in your arsenal and game plan...

you're not believable.

[Liddel]

Sparring (light and hard) is that answer to the problem. So are the drills, the chi sau, the forms. All one complete package. Can't have WC without a little from all the categories, I believe.

Best,
Kenton

This is a very open minded view which i agree with 100%. Good Call.

you can't replicate the awareness of the real fight in competitive sparring.

Its as though you only see sparring giving one benifit when i see it as improving many elements of fighting other than an "awareness of the real fight ".

Dont get me wrong WCdummy - i do agree with this point - however this reason alone doesnt warrant dismissing sparring in training like you have mentioned IMO.

[Kapten Klutz]

I like to compare it to learning a language. Suppose you want to be able to converse freely in your new language on any subject, but you're not in the country where the language is spoken.

First you study grammar and vocabulary. Does this reproduce the awareness and feel of free conversation?

Then you create simple sentences and respond to preprogrammed questions from your teacher. Does this reproduce the awareness and feel of free conversation?

Then you train by conversing on a particular subject, say 'bicycles'. You learn the words for inner tube, handlebars and so on and have a nerdy little conversation with your fellow students. 'My bicycle is red, what color is your bicycle?' yadda yadda. Does this reproduce the awareness and feel of free conversation?

Finally you converse freely with your fellow students even though none of you has ever been 'in country'. The teacher helps you along in a controlled environment. To a native speaker you all sound like you just descended from UFOs without any feeling for slang or how people put things, but you keep at it. Does this reproduce the awareness and feel of free conversation in that foreign country?

Maybe it doesn't. But will it help you when you finally arrive in the country and try to speak freely? Yes. And the more you train it, the better you'll be.

[Wing Chun Dummy]

Just to add my little bit:

We've been down this road before. This argument, etc. Round and round we go!

You say that you can't replicate what happens in a real right with sparring. Agreed. but I ain't starting any fights anytime soon. Are you? Do you go out and start fights, put yourself out there with your life on the line to fight the "real" fight?

Sparring (light and hard) is that answer to the problem. So are the drills, the chi sau, the forms. All one complete package. Can't have WC without a little from all the categories, I believe.

Best,
Kenton

i agree with this. Round and round we go with something to agree on now

[MyDrills]

WC is effective only for experienced fighter. THats why its best to practice the drills on foreign opponent to learn the variations. Thats how i do my drills.

WC practitioner without enough fight exp are more likely to lose.

[Wing Chun Dummy]

after 7 years of karate i couldn't fight at all, then after 1 year of wing chun i had an awareness of personal space and was able to guard me space and i felt confident enough to use the pak sau. i think wing chun's benefits are very quick and wing chun is very good for teaching people self defence in a very short amount of time. i'm sure you've heard that before.

[MyDrills]

after 7 years of karate i couldn't fight at all, then after 1 year of wing chun i had an awareness of personal space and was able to guard me space and i felt confident enough to use the pak sau. i think wing chun's benefits are very quick and wing chun is very good for teaching people self defence in a very short amount of time. i'm sure you've heard that before.

good point

[tjwingchun]

This thread reads just like my mind, going off on so many tangents, where do I begin to post a reply.

Like Victor I began some time ago, started training 1974 and teaching professionally 1983, 7days a week. I worked on the doors of Nightclubs in Newcastle UK, so I have lived and seen the 'harder' side of life. I remember when Shaun Rawcliffe joined Sifu Kwok's Association proir to his alignment with Sigung Yip Chun and can whole heartedly recommend him as an instructor.

To the 1st question 1st and the related reply's; Wing Chun in my biased viewpoint is the one of the most effective of the martial arts when dealing with the reality of fighting, several students who had been training only weeks have used it to overcome bullies simply by applying basic centreline puching, what I term as LESSON 1.

To me Wing Chun was designed to fight people who know how to fight as 3-400 years ago the Shaolin system was being taught openly so there was a need to fast track street fighting skills from the start rather than let them develop over 10-40 years.

I am of the opinion of 'NO SPARRING' but if you saw the way that our Chi Sau is sometimes trained you may say that we do. To me it is in the mindset or visualisation of how you are training and what specifically you are trying to develop from the exercise.

It is important to know how to 'ENTER' that is to close the distance, Chum Kiu (Bridging the Gap), get from no hands to one hand, then from one hand to two, to control your opponent so they do not have a viable structure to hit you while you open them up for an 'OFF LOADING' technique, ie hitting them with a full power strike.

In Chi Sau we can easily practice the first stages of this method but not the last, understanding 'off loading' is left outside Chi Sau, once you know you have got into the position you can fire the strike out relaxed so that when it hits you training partner it does not injure them, to get a feel of the real contact training of the strike is what we use the dummy and bags for.

Kicks to ankle, shin, knee and pubic bone (not the groin as it is only pain whereas breaking the pelvis has more physical effect!), striking to the eyes, neck and throat are good entry techniques to get you into range for elbows to sternum, head or throat.

It has been mentioned about the situation you are in and levels of violence is certainly an issue, from the lippy teenager and youthful drunk to the drug-crazed psycho, these require differing levels of response and it is only with experience that you can quickly make those decisions when the dynamic of a street confrontation takes place. I always say that the most difficult situation you can face is the drunken friend/relative at weddings/funerals when they are trying to hit you but you don't want to knockout your Granny!

I believe in the understanding of SELF that is why I teach my student how to know their personal body mechanics related to fighting the way that I do. It has taken me over 30 years to get to my level of understanding and I see it as my job to get them there faster.

As far as Tae Bo, Shaolin Do, Thai Boxing, BJJ, NHB, or any other art, though I give them my respect as I do all arts trained seriously and well, I honestly believe my Wing Chun would hold me in good stead, though to add to this I have a student who if he did Origami hold leave you in the shape of a swan, he is just that sort of guy who is a natural fighter, he did 13 years full contact Ju Jitsu and has been with me now for 5 years and becoming rather a handfull even for me lol.

This is my first real post and I look forward to more, sorry it is a bit long winded but there was a lot of things to try and cover.

Respect to all travelling to path, take care and remember the only rule in Ed Parkers fight book was "Never kick a woman in the balls!"

Keep smiling Trevor

[sir-elrik]

Its not about the art its about the fighter! thats a quote thats fit with conclusions i reached through my fair share of fights during highschooll and army (even though i never liked to fight it was something with my face,attitude that tracked all the bullies on me). Even though those fights never enclosed a life threating situation they where normal street fights with punchs and grapplings. back then i dnt knew wing chun (neither i know now im quite new in the art)

first of all try to avoid it, is not such a bad thing someone to insult you.

When you get in fight, fight; fight hard and end it as fast as possible.The longer the fight is keep going the more probable is to get hurt. You can save your ass for one or two or three punches-kicks but you can not keep doing it the whole day.

do not let the opponent to grab you if you are not stronger than him or familiar with grapplings techniques. especially your hand, they only time i was beaten up was cause the guy graped my right hand(my good hand) and i ddnt now what to do.

hit first and keep going

looking back in those fights and thinking how different things would have been if i knew wing chun i conclude that i would had cause them much more damage before even they realize what had hited them. probably their knees would hv been my first target following some punches and some elbows.

I have to point out that where i live(greece) people they dnt carry semi-automatic weapons(USA) or knifes(UK) when they are going to school. In addition some kind of honour code prohibits you for keep hiting you opponent when he is in the floor(something that in UK where i studied is not applicable).

is my first post so hi to everyone

[MyDrills]

my advise to you all fellow martial artist, master defense first so you can master offense.

you cannot master offense if you dont master your defense. this applies to all MA to be effective

[bcbernam777]

I am very interested in the style because I have seen the fast handmovements used, but how effective would wing chun be against someone who has had other martial arts training. I know it's a stupid question because a smart martial arts practitioner would never have to prove himself and end up in a fight anyways.

I'm just curious though: How well would Wing Chun work against a street thug? I live in the city and my area constantly has people getting beat up and robbed. Would wing chun training be the best choice for street self defense?

And I know this has probably been discussed here before, but: How would a Wing Chun practitioner go about fighting against a BBJ guy. It seems they would just have to take you off your feet and you'd be finished. These big strong BJJ guys, how would you go about them? I'm not a huge guy with big muscles, thats why I find Wing Chun so interesting...But does it really work?

Thanks. I'm not trying to start any arguements or say that WC is inferioir, I'm just curious. Could someone explain it to me?

The power in Wing Chun is through the proper execution and harmony of biomehanics, it is only effective if you can master this

[namron]

offence is the best form of defence.........................................

[tjwingchun]

offence is the best form of defence.........................................

So that is that why people call me an offensive bar steward, my defensive attitude!