Tired of so called "MMA" in UFC

[Chief Fox]

Ok, we've all seen it. It's a UFC bout. The fighters are introduced and we are all informed about how much they've trained in a certain style. Most times it's Juijitsu (sorry about the spelling). The fight starts and we see two guys who are wildly trading blows. Very few kicks, some ground work but most of the fight is the two guys just trying to knock each other out.

The other fight we see all the time is the one that immediately goes to the ground and the two fighters roll around on the mat for a while until they are pulled apart or one taps. In my opinion, a very boring fight.

So why is it that these ground fighting experts try to do stand up when it looks like all they can do is stand toe to toe and trade punches? What do they have to prove by doing stand up?

I watch these fights and the whole time I'm yelling "LEG KICK, LEG KICK, HIS LEG IS RIGHT OUT THERE, KICK IT." But they don't. They trade blows and "try" to box. And most do it very poorly.

Maybe I'm wrong but the most popular mix of training these days for MMA is, juijitsu, muy tai and boxing. From the looks of the fights though, there are plenty of guys who can fight on the ground but when it comes to stand up, they're pretty bad. There are exceptions of course but most times it's just a very sloppy slug fest with no kicks.

So the typical UFC MMA fighter is well versed in ground fighting but in my opinion is lacking in the boxing/muy tai area.

Just an observation. For all of you MMA guys out there LEG KICK!

[MasterKiller]

Pride has better striking.

[bodhitree]

There are some great kickers in the ufc though, St. Pierre and David Louasseau(sp?) are good at that.

[Chief Fox]

There are some great kickers in the ufc though, St. Pierre and David Louasseau(sp?) are good at that.

Yep, is it St. Pierre that landed a spining back kick on Matt Hughes? After I saw that I was like "YEA! way to represent!".

[Face2Fist]

ufc is a small spectrum of MMA, you have other organizations like PRIDE, SHOOTO and K-1 that have good strikers and complete fighters that can mix it up.

[SevenStar]

it's hard "trying to box" when you are also worried about being taken down. Also, a lot of those guys are grapplers who are new to striking.

Lousseau won his match in ufc 53 with a spinning back kick. Agreed that he is a good kicker.

[Becca]

If you are having a hard time "trying to box" because of take down threats, you ain't training right. There are oodles of fighters out there who have no problem swinging hard at a grappler, Chuck Liddell for one. And he's a great striker. He can roll just fine. But you don't see him going for the take-down and he never lloks like he's worried about being taken down... Tank Abbot was another who didn't let the fear of a takedown stoppin him from boxing.

[SevenStar]

If you are having a hard time "trying to box" because of take down threats, you ain't training right. There are oodles of fighters out there who have no problem swinging hard at a grappler, Chuck Liddell for one. And he's a great striker. He can roll just fine. But you don't see him going for the take-down and he never lloks like he's worried about being taken down... Tank Abbot was another who didn't let the fear of a takedown stoppin him from boxing.

Liddell has also been wrestling since he was knee high to a pop bottle (all his life). He's also been doing bjj for the past 7 years. he ain't a pure striker. It's his grappling background that makes him able to defend them so well. If takedowns were not a threat, there would be no need to cross train, would there? Tank fought in a period where the game was new. Notice how he started getting owned later in his career.

[David Jamieson]

look, the point of these things is not to showcase martial art, it's to sell violence for money. YOung guys train hard to get a piece of that action for doing something they like and figure they're good at.

ufc fighters are about conditioning and being able to take it as opposed to really being into martial arts.

a lot of them only have a few years of training, but they have great condition and a lot of competitive drive. THis is a prerequisite to this venue.

Yes, there are out of the hundreds of ufc fighters a good number of them that can really fight well in a couple of the ranges or even all the ranges, but the mojority are well conditioned guys with not enough training to be in pro boxing or a specialized event like pro muay thai. Give em time though and some of em will move further into the development of those skills and others will just move on.

[Chief Fox]

look, the point of these things is not to showcase martial art, it's to sell violence for money.

I agree, excellent point.

But for my dollar I would still like to see more skill and more well rounded fighters.

[Becca]

Liddell has also been wrestling since he was knee high to a pop bottle (all his life). He's also been doing bjj for the past 7 years. he ain't a pure striker. It's his grappling background that makes him able to defend them so well. If takedowns were not a threat, there would be no need to cross train, would there? Tank fought in a period where the game was new. Notice how he started getting owned later in his career.

My point exactly. Liddell trains the right way. All the wrestling background would be little more tha a data point if he didn't keep it up. And you have a point about Tank. He did start getting owned. But he's still one of my all-time favorites.

My point of no viewing the take down as a threat was actually a valid one, though. If you don't work the ground, you freak out when someone puts you there. The last 2 weeks in class we have been working some Hawaiian Kempo in class, all of which involves putting your opponant on the ground with sweeps and throws then applying an armbar. I have seen alot of people getting hurt from freaking out mid-throw.,getting hurt before the even touch the ground makes them even more aprehensive of it the next time. In a school that doesn't focus solely on grappling, it often takes years for the avaerage student to become cofy with being swept or thrown.

I don't grapple much amy more, but I have done alot of it in the past and I am not bothered in the least at being thrown. I doubt I could still sparr effectively from the ground, but I also know it won't hurt as bad as it looks if I land and tap right. It takes being thrown and joint locked thousands of times to become confident in your ability to land right and tap safely.

The avaerage UFC fighter only focuses on ground skills if they know they are going to be facing a grappler. Then they train hard for 2-3 moths. That just don't cut it. It takes years. It is no accident that all the current title holders have strong wrestling backgrounds. They spent years doing it.

[rogue]

ufc fighters are about conditioning and being able to take it as opposed to really being into martial arts.

How are ufc fighters not martial artists?

[David Jamieson]

How are ufc fighters not martial artists?

Now did I say that rogue? I don't think I did. What they do is still martial arts, just not the art part and more that sportive combativce martial part. It's still martial arts, but not the whole of it, just the fighting part. With most of them, not all of them. There's lots of UFC-ers, though not a heck of a lot that pursue teh artistic aspect of martial arts, the refinement process in a holistic sense etc etc that all in all defines martial arts beyond mere competitive fighting.

never said it didn't take moxy or a modicum of skill and practice.

But feel free to split hairs cause there's pee in your cornflakes this morning.

[greensage22]

If it bothers you, join ufc and use your martial arts. I think that ufc and cage
fighters do focus to much on ground fighting, I've fought dozens of fights
street and comp, I have been taken down and forced to use ground
tech maybe 4 times in my life. I would like to see more knees hitting noses, elbows hitting jaws, and
snap kicks. I use almost all kicks when I fight. I'll be doing some amatuer
cage fights over the next couple years. "I'll post the clips, win or lose."
I wanted to see good fighting with skill more than brawn, so my buddy
who is friends with sean sherk "shark" is going to get me started.

[Chief Fox]

more power to you gs22. Good point though. If I don't like it then why not get in there and do it instead of complaining about it.

Don't know, not exactly a young guy anymore (37) but you never know.