Why do that with a staff?

[Ben Gash]

I once asked one of my teachers about some of the more flambouyant twirling moves with staffs, and he explained that they were often separate applications practiced together in the form. So you practice the big overhead spin with the palm open (which I must agree, I've only done with a horse cutter), and you're actually practising 2 grip changes. The advantage of this is that it's harder, so you become better at doing the small grip changes. It's the same with a lot of the big overhead twirls, they're really little hooks and digs linked together to give you a better feel for the energies.
Hate to disagree with you David, but I could teach for 3 hours on bow applications.

[David Jamieson]

I
Hate to disagree with you David, but I could teach for 3 hours on bow applications.

yeah, me too but that doesn't mean anything. Try applying it with a live resisting opponent and see how far bow applications get you. This outmoded kind of thinking is in my opinion a waste of time.

Also, the spinning on an open palm has no use as a striking or defending application. It is likely that despite all teh chit chat about it that anyone could actually demonstrate the move being used in a live environment.

there are a great deal of movemonets across a great deal of forms that have application that is not of the ways of fighting but instead are to increase, tonify, decrease etc etc energies or strength et al.

Classical weapons training is fun and it's for show. There are techniques that will map over so that you could use a chair or a garbage can to defend yourself etc etc. I don't put a lot of stock into the minutia of classical kungfu. A lot of it is pretty and ineffective when it comes right down to it.

One has to be realistic in their approach. Cl;assical exercise is good for you and traditional martial art is fun practice, but try not to get too caught up in thoise things tht you don't have definite knowledge of.

IE: I can use and handle a staff. I can hit really fecking hard with it and with relative accuracy. It is fun. I do not focus on it as a reality fighting tool because it isn't. For that I train repititiously only a few technique for striking, kicking, throwing and submitting. THose are the things I would use in a fight. THe kungfu just is practice and augmentation for me for the most part.

[hskwarrior]

The move where he twirls the stick on one hand with an open palm is also in Professor Lau Bun's Spear set as well. When you consider whether it is applicable its not. Any time you take your hands off or loosen your grip on a hand held weapon you take a chance on loosing your weapon.

But, we add in a little hop in place (like jumping over something) and land in a tip toe horse while using the blade to slice the throat. But, you have to get a good grip of the stick, and with your wrist torque the turn using the blade to cut.

hsk

[Ben Gash]

Can and have I do wish you'd stop transferring your insecurities onto others. Also, no-one at any point suggested that the technique in question had a striking application, it's a grip change and / or a gratuitous display of skill.

[Chief Fox]

I don't put a lot of stock into the minutia of classical kungfu. A lot of it is pretty and ineffective when it comes right down to it.

What would you consider to be "classical kung fu"? Forms? Ive learned a lot of forms and I've drilled applications for most of them. I've then used those same techniques when sparring. I do find that I have my favorite techniques that I use in most situations and they work well for me. I look at everything else as just increasing my arsenal and I continue to try new things to try to improve.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that spining a staff over your head has any combat value. What it does teach you is agility with a weapon and that is a valuable skill to have in your arsenal.

[hskwarrior]

I have to disagree with what david J said about classical weapons are only fun or for show. The Butterfly knives are a good example. No you can't carry them around with you, but you can substitute the knife for lets say a short stick you can apply the same principals minus the slicing and dicing.

I have studied Latosa Escrima for some time now, and prior to that i felt i had a good understanding of how to use them (butterfly knives), but after learning escrima i have a whole knew respect for that weapon because if can be applied effectively regardless of what you hold in your hand.

another thing i've learned thru escrima is the necessity of never losing your weapon.

but, all sets, hand or weapon have pretty glamorous techniques, and like the chinese say..."if its too pretty it doesn't work". 8 x's out of 10 techniques need to be modified to make it work according to American needs. The way techniques are strung together in sets are nice, but are in no way shape or form intended be executed in exact sequence.

At most the best you will ever be able to get off in a real combative situation is mainly basics. If you and another had a spear fight you wouldn't have the time to do any fancy twirls, or even have the chance to make risky grip changes. But, when performing in front of a crowd, pristine (sorry 4 mis-spelling) crisp and fancy techniques are the definte crowd pleaser.

It all has its place, its just up to you to dissect it and make a fancy technique applicable, much the same way you should with your gung fu.

peace

[IronFist]

Is the move preceeded by them yelling "Go Go Gadget Helicopter"?

rofl

10 character limit.

[David Jamieson]

Can and have I do wish you'd stop transferring your insecurities onto others. Also, no-one at any point suggested that the technique in question had a striking application, it's a grip change and / or a gratuitous display of skill.

you seem to fall back on this insecurity thing a lot ben. something you wanna tell us?

Here's the long and short of it.

oens talking about a form I am doing that I am demonstrating. I know that form inside and out and seeing as much can make commentary about what it is and what it is not.

If you guys learn that form, break it down, extrapolate it and figure out what it is what in it, then by all means, let's discuss it. Otherwise, take my word in regards to the film of me when I say that what I am doing here or there is coming from a viewpoint of "I" am doing it, not watching it, not mindlessly ambling about etc etc.

[Ben Gash]

you seem to fall back on this insecurity thing a lot ben. something you wanna tell us?

I'm not the one running other's skill down and declaring that the training methods of people don't work at all. I'm pefectly comfortable with my kung fu, its saved my skin on numerous occasions, and because of that I'll freely admit that I don't have all the answers all the time.
You tell everyone to think outside the box, and then proceed to A) make assumptions about everyone else's kung fu training based on your own experience and B) Refuse to acknowledge that anything outside of the narrow spectrum of what you've decided is "real" is valid.
I am good at Chin Na becuase I am good at bridging because I am good at Chi Sau. I know I'm good at Chin Na because I have used it many times in real situations where I have been in real physical danger, often against people with increased pain tolerance due to drink, drugs or mental illness (I have a pretty high risk occupation, indeed, I'm statistically more likely to be assaulted than a policeman). Therefore I can teach for 3 hours on bow applications and I know they'll work. Will they all work for everyone? Possibly not, but they'll all work for someone.
BTW, have you been on the meth? Your writing style has really gone downhill in the past few weeks, and in some paragraphs I have no idea what you're trying to say