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Thread: Late Grand Master Wei & Present Grand Master Shyun

  1. #1

    Late Grand Master Wei & Present Grand Master Shyun

    I had the opportunity of visiting http://www.babutanglang.com. It is a nicely designed website and very informative. I comment the site developers on a job well done.

    There were some impressive old rare video clips of the late Grand Master Wei and his student (Master Wang Jie).

    One clip that stands out is Grand Master Wei performing 摘要一路拳 (zhai yao yi lu quan). Grand Master Wei in his 80’s was still performing with great speed and power. It reminded me of when Master Shyun was teaching me that same fist form. Master Shyun performed the fist form movements exactly as how Grand Master Wei was performing it in the video clip. I am proud to be part of the 8 Step traditional lineage that was taught to me and my other classmates by Grand Master Shyun and him by the late Grand Master Wei.

    To all my 8 Step family, let us all continue to form a common goal and help proliferate the 8 Step Preying Mantis style as was started by the late Grand Master Wei and continuing by the present Grand Master Shyun.


  2. #2

    ????????????????????

    Chaotic mantis,
    I realize you have been out of the loop for a while but some of the things you have said confuse me a little bit. Could you please explain them? thanks in advance.

    you said To all my 8 Step family, let us all continue to form a common goal and help proliferate the 8 Step Preying Mantis style as was started by the late Grand Master Wei and continuing by the present Grand Master Shyun.


    you said 8 step was started by Master Wei?

    and then called Shrfu James Shyun Grandmaster?

    may I ask what you think qualifies a teacher to become a grandmaster? or master for that matter?

    thanks again brother...
    KUNG FU USA
    www.kungfuUSAbuffalo.com
    www.youtube.com/kungfuusabuffalo1
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  3. #3

    EarthDragon

    “Proliferate the 8 Step Preying Mantis style as was started by the late Grand Master Wei and continuing by the present Grand Master Shyun.”

    Proliferate: To increase or spread at a rapid rate.

    I am saying Grand Master Wei started spreading eight step by teaching it to many students. Grand Master Shyun continued the tradition of also teaching it to many students.

    Here is a cut and paste portion directly from your website. Should I need to say anymore about Grandmaster Sun or Shyun? You also support the claim that James Sun is the present Grandmaster of 8 Step. If you don't feel this way, please update your website.

    http://www.eightstep.com/kungfu.php
    “In 1990 Grandmaster James Sun (the sole inheritor of the Eight Step Praying Mantis System) made the decision to further protect the system. He adopted the name of Shyun Style Praying Mantis so that people could discern the authenticity of this system's heritage and lineage from those that are in imitation.”

    Please get over the issues you have with James Sun, his school and move on. Please! Please! This bitterness and hatred are ugly and is eating you up alive.


  4. #4
    chaotic,
    Unfortunatly my website was created by one fo shyun's ex- students who created the 8step website and I have not been able to update it because i have no way to get the adminstrators info. it nees serious updates i have old stuff on there that needs to be brought up to the year 2000.

    you dont have to explain the defination of Proliferate. that was not my question.

    I simply asked why you said master Wei started 8 step. and what your defination of a grandmaster was and who was ranked a master under shrfu shyun.

    Please elaborate on your comments thanks again.
    KUNG FU USA
    www.kungfuUSAbuffalo.com
    www.youtube.com/kungfuusabuffalo1
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  5. #5
    Let me try and simplify this for you regarding "Started spreading 8 Step".

    JHL only spread 8 Step to ONE student (FHY).

    FHY only spread 8 Step to ONE student (WHT).

    WHT spread 8 Step to MANY students. (SKL and other classmates).

    SKL spread 8 Step to MANY students.

    In spreading I meant to say to teach many students not just one.



  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Wow, I never thought in a million years I would agree with EarthDragon. Present Grand Master Shyun (that sentence just leaves a really foul taste). I was trying to bite my tongue, and remain silent based on the fact I have still so much to learn, and those helping me haven't said any thing (I think their too busy training, and have more important things on their mind... but I don't so I was curious as to when the essential forms find their way to Shuyn's system? I thought Shyun was teaching 10 body coordination praying mants, and finally leaving the 8 step mantis to those who practise the 8 steps as basics, and not the 8 low kicks, 8 high kicks, 8 blocks, 8 kicking blocks 8 hand postitions 8 fists and all that other jazz (aka filler). I thought there was a thread a wile back stating most likley where Shyun got his mantis from based on the form Lan jie. I also remember a more recent thread where Shyuns 10 form where listed (minus # 10) and there wasn't a single mention of the essentials. No disrespect meant (although challenging the grand master claim I guess is a little wrong based on the fact that his skill is still far above mine, but regardless a lie is a lie). I see this discussion going no where, as both parties truely believe what they are saying, and with out stating reasons why he is or isn't this convo will most likley be cut short by an admin. I feel he isn't based on the fact his basics are not mentioned by any other person who studied with Master Wei, I find it hard to believe Master Wei created an entire group of exercises to teach his park students (who are also featured in his books, and even helped him write and edit his books) versus those Shyun teaches as basic (as Mast Chang stated in a MQ article, Master Wei taugt 8 stances, 8 steps, and 8 kicks as basics). Also how shuyn is never even mentioned in any Master Wei's books. I also have a hard time believing that all of Master Wei's students are just trying to fatten their pockets by dispelling Shyun when they've never asked any thing from me or anyone else I know that they have helped, and are still helping. Most don't run schools. They teach a few dedicated students who they want to teach based on attitude, not for monetary gain.

    Thanks
    God bless the child that can hold his own.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Tonawanda
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    Jiang did not create 8 step soley, it was a joint effort, and it may be possible that Feng learnt from all three masters.
    God bless the child that can hold his own.

  8. #8
    Hi Forkintheroad,

    Let me clarified some points you mention. Please note I am not looking to start an argument and because of that I will not address other parts of your post. I wish to remain respectful to all on this board.

    1. Master Shyun has all the 6 essential forms. It was included as part the early instructor training program manual. I still have the materials which I will gladly scan to show proof. If one ask Dean E., he can verify. I was taught by Master Shyun the 1-4 essential forms. For all who knows the forms, I will be glad tell you certain movements in these forms for verification. Also Tony Puyot, Michael D.'s teacher can also provide verification as he was taught the 1st essential form.

    2. Master Shyun was in Grand Master Wei's book and his name was mentioned. In the book there is a group photo that Master Shyun is standing behind Grand Master Wei. It is the book that was out of print and now back in print. I have a copy of the book that I photocopied from Master Shyun.

    I am here to help promote 8 Step and I do apologized if I have said anything wrong to all of you. I am sharing what I was taught from my sifu. Again I am here to help others know about 8 Step.


    Respectfully,


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Tonawanda
    Posts
    57
    Thank you for your responses,
    I wasn't aware that Shyun has th 6 essentials, I'll take your word for it and not waste Mike, or Tony's time. I received your other message, and likewise if you have any questions feel free to ask. It's good to see answers to questions and not pointless bashing.

    Thank you again for your responses.
    God bless the child that can hold his own.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA.
    Posts
    1,754
    Can you show us all where the text and pic of Shyun with Wei are in the book? You would think he would get more than a "mention" if he was designated to carry on the lineage eh?
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  11. #11
    From what I was told by one of Master Wei's students, James Shyun is mentioned in the book as a financial contributor to get the book published. I could not verify for myself as I don't read Chinese. James Shyun is supposedly in a photo for one of Master Wei's birthdays. However there are about 30 other people also in this photo.

  12. #12

    Pictures

    Here are the 2 attachments. One is a group student pictures with Master James Shyun standing behind Master Wei. The second file has all of Master Wei's student including Master James Shyun.

    Again I am not here to start any flame war, but I only want to clarify misconceptions about Master Shyun and to discuss 8 Step. If you ask me a question that I don't know, I will be first to admit I don't know.

    Lulu - I do not know if Master Shyun is a financial contributor to get the book published. I thought it was mention from previous posts that Lin Chun Fu and his other kung fu brothers helped publish the book. Please correct if it is wrong.

    Attached Images Attached Images   

  13. #13
    Chaotic mantis,
    you said that part of the cirrculum when you trained from Shyun was the
    Zhai yao?

    If this is true Could you then please explain the hard and soft method's for defeating the weavers shuttle? or at least the methods for immortal takes the hair?

    it seems as when I asked Dean Shyun's only 5th generation and 25 year student about this Dean told me Shyun never learned them. So I am cuirous as to how he was able to teach you 10 years later. thanks in advance
    KUNG FU USA
    www.kungfuUSAbuffalo.com
    www.youtube.com/kungfuusabuffalo1
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  14. #14
    EarthD

    Regarding your posts, alright I may have been a bit judgmental. My BAD.

    I have no idea what they are "Could you then please explain the hard and soft method's for defeating the weavers shuttle? or at least the methods for immortal takes the hair?" If you know the Chinese translation of it, maybe I might know. But as far as what you said, I don't know.

    The Zhai Yao are forms 1-6 road. From Shyun's teaching, they are in the later forms. ForkInTheRoad know about these forms. These forms showed a lot of 8 Step's core techniques. As I said previously I know 1-4 of the Zhai Yao.

    Dean does not know about the Zha Yao because he never learned it from Sifu. Before Dean left SF, I think he only learned the first 5 or 6 8 Step forms. I don't recall what else he learned aside the Tai Chi form.

    If you see the tape that sifu gave to Dean and which you also have a copy, it includes the 1st Zha Yao form. Tony and Kin also knows the 1st Zha Yao form and possibly many more.

    I learn these forms before you even joined the federation. I was around when Dean was around. To prove that I was around and that I know Dean, ask him about his photo album collection that he showed some of his classmates. If you are his best friend, you probably saw the photos in his album collection. Also when Dean came back to visit SF with his students for the 1st time since moving back to Buffalo, he brought along his new girlfriend with him. I believe she was previously divorced.

    That should be enough to stir your curiosity. Later,
    Last edited by ChaoticMantis; 12-21-2005 at 08:34 PM.

  15. #15
    Hello Chaotic,

    On a previous post you atttached the 8 Step forms in Masters Wei's book. You mentioned Dean learned the first 5 forms but not the Zhai Yao. What is the 5th form he learned. The reason I ask is my teacher learned from Dean many years ago (he no longer does 8 Step but I do) and Master Shyun taught Lan Jie which we all know is not part of 8 Step. What is the 5th form Sifu Dean learned. Also my Sifu learned two additional forms after Lan Jie that had different names besides Zhai Yao. Did Master Shyun give the Zhai Yao forms different names. I would love to compare notes privately about the essentials. Take Care.

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