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Thread: Late Grand Master Wei & Present Grand Master Shyun

  1. #16
    Hello Lulu,

    LanJie can be a big debate as to whether it is or not part of 8 Step. I will not comment further on LanJie.

    If you give me the names of the forms or describe movements, I can tell you if it is familar to me or not. The Zhai Yao forms always had the same name from 1-6.

    Please feel free to talk to me in private regarding the Zhai Yao and the other forms, I will do my best to compare notes with you.


  2. #17
    Hi Chaotic,

    I guess there is no debate about Lan Jie, as Master Wei never mentioned it and the Lan Jie as I learned as 8 Step is not really close to the Launjia I learned as Grand Ultimate Plum Blossom which traces back to Master Chiang Hu Long. Its not on the list of forms you posted before so it must have been added by Shyun for his reasons. Why not talk about it? It think would be a great discussion on how it made its way into 8 step. Talk to you soon.

  3. #18
    Hi Lulu,

    I do not want to get into any heated arguments with others regarding 8 Step. There are many past 8 Step related arguments. I tried to remain netural to the point that I did not list the additional 8 Step forms from Master Shyun fearing it might start a flame war.

    The Lan Jit that master Shyun teaches does have a strong flavor of 8 Step as evident in the footworks. I personally find this form to be a very nice form comparing to 7 Star's Bung Bo which is also a very nice form.


  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA.
    Posts
    1,754
    There is no Lan Jie in Babu's original curriculum. Period. IF SHyun has it, it has been added in.

    Thanks
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  5. #20
    Jake,

    That's why I will not speak any further about it. I will discuss what is publicly known in the 8 Step community. If anybody wants to discuss more indept about Master James Shyun's lineage of 8 Step, I will be glad to do in private or in public in a way that will not start a flame war.

    I am here to contribute to and learn from this forum. Also to present a different picture of Master James Shyun to all. I have the deepest respect for all you.




  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Tonawanda
    Posts
    57
    Not to beat a dead horse back to life, but there was a good thread where Kevin gave 2 of the highest possibilities of where Shyuns Lan Jie came from based on some of the markers in the form.

    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=30317
    God bless the child that can hold his own.

  7. #22
    Fork,

    Thanks for showing the old post. It is very informative and I have not read this archive post. I appreciate everybody's post regarding what is or what isn't in 8 Step, but I do have to stand by my sifu's curriculum simply because he is my teacher. I hope you all can understand where I stand and at the same time do not wish to start a flame war. I only want to share and learning with all of you.

    Tainan Mantis does bring out good points and I really appreciate him coming to my sifu's defense.


  8. #23
    Chaoticmantis..... Just curious as to how long you trained in 8 step? you mentioned that you studied in 1992 but for how long? what grade did you achive? You seem very adament about yor opionon which is fine, I am just wondering how well you actualy knew Shyun. I was in the system for 16 years in Buffalo then was accepted to train under Shyun and lived at his for school from 1995-1996.
    While i appriciate your respect for his teachings as i also do i am curious as to how much depth you have with him. thanks in advance and happy holidays
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  9. #24
    I started 8 Step training from 1986 to 1992 and afterward whenever I get a chance to visit sifu. Please don't worry about my grade level which I don't think it is important for now. I will tell you if I do or don't know about 8 Step. While I know a lot about 8 Step, there is a lot that I don't know about 8 Step.

    If you want to say you are higher ranking than me than by all mean go a head. I have a very good feeling if I reveal my 8 Step level, that you will try to find a way and discredit me from 8 Step. I saw the patterns previous posts. Again this is my opinion and if you feel offended than I apologize. All I am concern about is sharing, learning more about 8 Step and learning about other northern mantis styles.

    I know sifu very well and that is why I am here to share my perspective of him. There are many more things I can tell you about sifu, but I am starting to feel like I am being interrogated. If this continues, I will LEAVE this forum just like many of Sifu's student instructors. You can than be a sole source spokesperson for 8 Step. Please let's move on with talking about mantis martial arts!

    Have a happy holiday!


  10. #25
    EarthD,

    Your dates are slipping. Please correct your timeline. You said Dean is a 25 year student of sifu.

    2005
    - 25
    --------
    1980 (Sifu was still in Taiwan and his son was just born)


    Your dates with the school???

    1995
    - 16
    -------
    1979 ???


    "it seems as when I asked Dean Shyun's only 5th generation and 25 year student about this Dean told me Shyun never learned them. So I am cuirous as to how he was able to teach you 10 years later. thanks in advance"
    __________________
    Last edited by ChaoticMantis; 12-23-2005 at 09:27 PM.

  11. #26
    Earthdragon that is a question I am also wondering as you state

    I was in the system for 16 years in Buffalo then was accepted to train under Shyun and lived at his for school from 1995-1996.

    If my memory serves me right Sifu didn't start teaching teaching in the US until 1983-1984? So yes the amount of time you have stated does seem a little off to me. I don't doubt you trained for many years but exactly what year did you start training with dean? I mean as far as memory serves me didn't dean start traing around 1986 which whould of made him a 10 year student when you went to live with Shyun?

  12. #27
    sorryabout that please allow me to clarify. I am speaking of the beginning of 8 step training till present as we both are still practicing and teaching. I started in 1989 in buffalo NY to present 2005 = 16 years. Dean started in 1986 till 2005 = 20 years sorry not 25.
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  13. #28

    Defeating weaver’s shuttle & Immortal takes the hair

    EarthDragon,

    I hope this answered your question. The questions you asked sounded familar. I remembered I read it before on a post, but didn't remember where. I did a search and it was a post from Kevin Brazier (11-01-05). Some of the moves seems familar in the Zhai Yao sets. I am not 100% sure because my chinese is really bad. I sent a message to Kevin inquiring about which of the mantis family this is applicable to.



    http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...t=38973&page=2

    Defeating weaver’s shuttle.
    There is the soft and hard method for this.

    “The hard defeating of weaver’s shuttle.
    I attack with my right hand.
    He applies weaver’s shuttle.
    I turn my right palm along his face(yang zhang shun mian). My left hand divides his left elbow. My right palm strikes his left shoulder.
    The soft defeating of weaver’s shuttle.
    He applies weaver’s shuttle.
    I go along with him and apply a right groin strike in the rear mountain climbing posture.
    Or, I adhere to his hand, hook down(nian shou gou xia) and apply the weaver’s shuttle.”

    Grasping hand enter with chin na. Immortal takes the hair.
    For the solo version we can simply follow the end of first Zhai Yao.
    Here is the other way to apply it,

    “Application of the adhering method.
    His right hand firmly grasps my right hand or neck.
    I seal with the left and do right bumping elbow(zhuang) to bend his fingers.
    I swiftly apply the right inner forearm(ge zhou) and strike his neck.
    He blocks my elbow.
    Then I can do left seal right planting elbow. The head of my fist faces down and I apply inner forearm elbow to his chest.”

  14. #29
    chaotic
    yep those are the ones. I persoanlly am eager to learn the Zhai yao as Shyun never taught them to anyone or so it is said. I was wondering why these were not taught in his cirriculum. But you said you learned them years ago so i am curious as to why he would take them out of the cirriculum........ even after certifiying a student to sifu level one would think you would have been taught most of the system and then on your own to perfect what you have been taught to master level. after conversating with kevin as he said these are the essentials of 8 step. and would love to learn them. thanks be well
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  15. #30
    Earthdragon: now I understand the timeline so i see that you still teach 8 step. I have a question since it is clear that others teach 8 step can you tell me have you ever taken lessons from anyone else, if so did they show you something different? what was the difference I am very curious to know. Also is it your belief that Shyun just added to 8 step or where did his 8 step come from if not grand master wei as i remember you posting that none of wei's student's remember shyun. So where does his eight step come from in your opinion?

    Also and I know this may seem like a tough question but since you question the validity of the 8 step you have learned what do you tell your student's do you let them know that you may be teaching a system that is not the true 8 step? Do you inform them that you were taught from someone who is in your own words a "liar" Please don't take this as a personal attack I just would like to know why you would take the time to teach others a system that you have continually questioned and that you learned from a teacher who betrayed you. I mean i have read many of your posts and you discredit much of Shyun's knowledge yet you still teach and practice the system? why is that? I remember clearly one post where you brought up the fact the Shyun was only in public classes and they were kids classes at that. and only for 1 year. If this is trully the facts that you believe in why would you consider teaching anything you learned from him to others and why would you consider the fact he certifed you an accomplishment? it just seems very odd to me that someone who feels so strongly that you were betrayed, lied to and not taught the real system would not take so much pride in what you learned under him.

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