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Thread: Shining Board, Jade Ring, Closed Door and Mandarin Duck

  1. #1

    Shining Board, Jade Ring, Closed Door and Mandarin Duck

    Does anyone practise or know anything about...

    Guangban (Shining/Bright Board), Mimen (Secret/Closed door), Yuhuan (Jade Ring) or Yuanyang (Mandarin Duck)?

    These all look very interesting but maybe they are too obscure for real information! Do any of you know anything about any of these?

    S
    Black Mantis

  2. #2
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    Mimen is a Taiwanese nomenclature for Meihua.
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmantis
    Does anyone practise or know anything about...

    Guangban (Shining/Bright Board), Mimen (Secret/Closed door), Yuhuan (Jade Ring) or Yuanyang (Mandarin Duck)?

    These all look very interesting but maybe they are too obscure for real information! Do any of you know anything about any of these?

    S
    Mimen (Secret/Closed door)-lunging motion used to achieve point of vulernablity, or close rang striking position in order to apply most all other other fighting principles.

    Yuhuan (Jade Ring)-primarily footwork including things like evasive circling, shifts of centerline mass with multiple strikes on one shift, low bow with jade ring slide. You can also apply dragging hands with a jade ring arch.
    Bloodninja: I stomp the ground, and snort, to alert you that you are in my breeding territory.

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    No sir, Mimen is Secret Door. Secret Door and Meihua aren't the same, either. Meihua's range is much longer where Mimen's is all short and in close.

    At least that's how I heard. =) Hope I haven't learned it wrong, lol.

  5. #5
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    I heard it the same way Lu Bu.

    been waiting for Kevin to comment.

    I think Jake is basically referring to what Kevin has said about GM Kui's mantis being 'old mantis' and basically regarded as Meihua and it being Master Su's 'invention' of calling it Mimen...
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  6. #6
    << Secret Door and Meihua aren't the same, either. Meihua's range is much longer where Mimen's is all short and in close.>>

    That is somewhat true in how the forms are played, but from the point of view of fighting it is a different story.

    The Mantis style itself is a short range style.
    Within it are longer and shorter aspects. When the practitoner gets to fight they will emphasize those aspects and techniques that best suit the circumstances as well as the body type.

    Mei Hua is a well documented style. Old manuscripts and theories of the forms still exist in several different lines.
    Sadly, the same can not be said of Mimen.

    What exists are manuscripts written by my shifu of what he was taught by his shifu, but for Mimen that is it as far as I know.

    Kevin

  7. #7
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    Sweet. Thanks for the input.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

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    Shifu Kevin- I see what you are saying. Thank you for the clarification.

    Charles

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    Angry About at ropes end

    Well I am A student of a certain master and i respect the style of others, However, Grand Master Su is not an inventor, and if he is it must be revered as a real Mantis style. At this point there is noone that is more qualified to do the Baji Tang Lang or whatever you choose to call his work.

    Mimen is called that way for a reason. I suggest you ask the Mantis King Himself.
    It could be his master asked in the end to proliferate this system this way. How could you argue?

    Well one way is through all my fighters and Gladius. As i said GM SU IS OUR Grand Master And i am about sick of hearing this maybe maybe not crap. His site is availible if you have questions.

    Or Else you could accept the fact that he has been where many will never go and leave him Alone.
    I cant stand to see men that do not read English challenged at what they do here.

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    not at anyone

    look do not think i target
    The Only thing i am saying is that there is a real flag here.
    I am not drilling any one for Anything or any mistakes.
    Nevertheless, i as a little dropling left on the floor by a great man, will rise to show he has a presence.

  11. #11
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    DF
    Who was challenging Su or you and your organization?? Oso was just saying the Su invented the name, and to a degree he is right. It was Su's generation (perhaps not Su himself, but I do not know) that started calling it Mimen. No one is more qualified to do "Baji Tangalang" because no one else does it! It is not a style, it is Su's personal interpretation as to how Mantis should be played. That IMO is not a negative critique!
    I believe Lubu is referring to some Mimen he has seen Su do, and yes it is "tighter" than some of the mainland Meihua, but the forms are very similar. It is bascially Meihua, but what do I know.
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  12. #12
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    SD, my comments were only basically referring to what I've been told about our side of the line through Shiye Shr.

    Kevin has stated pretty clearly in several places that Kui did not call his mantis 'mimen', just 'old mantis' though the rest of the mantis world regards it as 'meihua'.

    If I'm incorrect w/ attributing 'Mimen' to Shiye Su, then I certainly retract it. My memory is just getting worse and worse these days. But, that's how I remember hearing/reading it.

    I DON'T think it's a bad thing for Shiye Su coined a named for his teachers style. That's the way it should me, IMO.

    Pong Lai gets thrown around as a 'new style' of mantis and I think it is doctrinally different from other lines.

    The last thing we need is the start of another WHF/CCM type fued.

    Shiye Su and Shuye Shi are creating different expressions of what they got from GM Kui. With the addition of the Baji on one side and...well, I don't know what to call the exact twist that makes PL, PL...they are going to be different 'styles' of mantis.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  13. #13
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    Sorry

    Guys look, I Am guilty for being sensitive on this issue because I have heard remarks in many places regarding his flavor or changing not just here but every where. I will admit the description of the style you guys gave is right. However the guy is pretty much my hero and i do not know enough to speak his language or ask him nor do i ever feel in a high enough place to even write to him.

    I took it the wrong way i guess, it was due to other comments through my time training from other sources quibbling over he does this or that different.

    All i know is ive seen him play, I also have tape from 2000, a few years ago and he still looks amazing and still lightining fast.

    So him not being here to speak out my back got up a bit
    I apologize for being such an ass
    James

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    no worries, bro...I never meant what I said as criticism, just repeating what I've learned about the history...i'm all about innovation and moving forward with the knowledge you learn from the past...that's the point, IMHO.

    yu shan gave me a copy of a tape of Master Su and I watch it fairly often just as I do my tapes of yu shan, Shifu Scolaro and Shiye Shi.

    I'm intrigued by Kui, he just looks like one of those crusty old men that are a trip to be around. I think understanding of him and his fu means looking at all the sources.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  15. #15
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    Shameless Profiteer (yes, I still lol about that, what can I say ),

    Nah, the Mimen I was talking about was what very, very, very little I have seen Master Shr do. I've seen Su Yu Chang practice Mimen as well, but I was directly referring to what I saw through Master Shr since I would probably p1ss someone off if I was talking about their teacher.

    Sorry, just in case I offended anyone anywhere.

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