Respect In Dojo

[Beau Brummie]

Hi Guys

I'm a newbie to Kung Fu and have only been training for 5 months. Another MA asked me if I called my teacher Sensei?

I said no and as it was Kung Fu it would be Sifu anyhow.

He then asked whether I called him Sifu and I answered no I call him by his Christian name.

A look of horror came on his face and he said I was/am deeply disrespecting my teacher.

Is this the case? I have never been told by my teacher to address him as Sifu and I have never been rebuked by him for using his Christian name. When other newcomers join I have never heard him ask them to call him Sifu either? Having not been instructed to do anything different I called him by his name as I would anybody else. As far as respect goes my teacher has it anyway as would any other human being.

Is there a problem here? None of the other more advanced students have made a point of telling me this. I would hate to think I'm disrespecting him in any way.

This guy I was talking to also said I should bow on entering and leaving the training hall. I haven't been taught this either.

Can you clear this one up for me guys as I'm enjoying my training and want to make sure I get the etiquette right.

Thanks
Chris

[syn]

Well I call my sifu by sifu () and bow when enterign and leaving, but it's a really a preference to the sifu you train under. Some are more strict and others aren't. If you see alot of other people in your school calling him by sifu you probably should too. He may just be nice and not say anythign but it does show respect. It's more the atmosphere of the school that determines this, so if your sifu is more laid back and would rather be called by his last name then by all mean.

[hskwarrior]

It is customary for a student to call his sifu by that title. I have been with my sifu for about 25 years now and still never call him by his given name.

its not about respect, its about he is your sifu, in other words master. I usually tell my students they can call me by my given name outside of gung fu activities, but when it comes to training, I AM SIFU, they are the students.

it is up to the senior students to correct the newbie's and tell them to call the teacher "sifu, sensei, master...whatever.

Referring to your sifu by his given name infers that you and him are equals, which is not the case. your sifu out of being humble will not force you to call him sifu, but you should anyway. he is not your friend.

if you want to honor the person for imparting their knowledge, then you should call them by their appropriate title.

its just the way I see it.

HSK

[PangQuan]

I agree with hsk, assuming the teacher has a formal traditional setting and way of being.

[viper]

Yep bow before entering and leaving the kwoon I always call my sifu sifu its respect I somtimes forget his name coz i never use it it just is a good thing to do it.

[SanHeChuan]

It sounds like the guy you were talking to had a Japanese style background and they are far more into the rituals of etiquette than you will typically find in a kung fu school. However in kung fu there is generally some amount of bowing and sifu is usually what you call your teacher. But it’s really up to your instructor how much ceremony and the like he wants. I had a Taiwanese san shou instructor who preferred to be called “coach”, and there was no bowing. I had another teacher that instructed us to call him sifu, and there was bowing when entering. Buy the way with swinging doors its easier to bow when entering the training area (usually where the mats begin) rather that trying to bow in the door way.
My last instructor didn’t asked to be called sifu, and I never addressed him with either a name or a title.
Just watch what the rest of the class is doing. And if the instructor bows when coming in then you know where you stand on that.

[Mr Punch]

Ding-dong! The correct answer is, call him by his christian name and do not bow when you enter or leave the kwoon (dojo is Japanese).

If he wanted you to call him sifu all the other students would be calling him sifu too. If he wanted you to bow, the other students would be bowing. Check the advanced students not the newbs.

1) Of course if you have any doubts you should ask a) the other students and b) the sifu, not necessarily in that order.

2) If you see the other students doing something you're not either alter your behaviour accordingly or refer to (1).

Teachers have different manners and customs, as do schools and lineages.

The people here who are saying you have to call him sifu are a) wrong, and b) going to make you look and feel a bit silly!

BTW, who's your sifu? I guess by your screen name you're from Birmingham, UK, which is where I'm from, so depending on your style I may know your sifu personally, have met him, know of him, or be able to help you directly with your question!

[Sekabin]

Nothing to add really (just feel like adding something), except to agree with the suggestion that you should be looking at/asking the senior students about it. If your Sifu is 'traditional' then he may want you to call him Sifu (I was going to say if he's Chinese he may want this... but then thought that was a generalisation too far). I'd also say it depends probably on the whole way of teaching - if the class is really informal and he teaches more like a 'coach' then probably his first name is what he's used to and wants.

I personally wouldn't want to be called 'coach' but if you're teaching in a sporting environment that seems suitable.

[neit]

i say go with the flow. the most senior students usually know whats up. i'd feel weird about calling a sifu by his first name, but its the sifu's choice.

[neit]

on another note if i personally was teaching martial arts i'd probably use my first name. but would be pleased if someone called me sifu.

[Samurai Jack]

Mat: always the voice of reason.

My Japanese martial arts teachers were and are all known as "Sensei." If I happen to be at aseminar or somesuch, I'll address the teacher who is not my primary teacher by thier last name followed by Sensei, e.g. "Jones Sensei", "Hauk Sensei", "DiAnne Sensei", etc. I once had the embarrassing seminar experience of calling out "Sensei, I have a question.", and having four different teachers respond! It was then that I recieved the pointer, and it works well, while continuing to show respect.

I've trained under three CMA teachers as well, including one whom I consider a "big name", outright master. All of them insisted they be addressed by thier given names. It totally depends on the school, and by the way, "Sensei" and "Sifu" are both words that merely mean "teacher."

[rogue]

It's been years since I have trained under someone who used a title. I find coach is being used more and more. I tend to only use a title if I am studying under someone and only in front of the kids.

[hskwarrior]

in the traditional sense, it is only right and a sign of respect.

Personally, i felt until recently uncomfortable with the title of SIFU. but now my students have students and the stangest thing for me to hear was someone callin me sigung.

your sifu is neither your friend nor equal. SO i think, be proactive and call the person you chose to train under by their honorary title.

I see it as an american Mentality not to want to call someone their master, or sifu.
but as americans wishing to study asian martial arts, it is not our place to inject your own opinions you should go with the flow and keep that tradition alive.

One of those sifu's who didn't mind being called by his given name. was sifu troy dunwood. but since sifu dunwood and i are classmates i took it upon myself after hearing them call him troy instead of sifu, i corrected them and now the do.

thats my take on it.

tanks

hsk

[David Jamieson]

Sounds like someone's all caught up in the trappings of martial arts as opposed to having concern for the riggings and doings of it.

which has more value?

That's all you need to decide really.

[rogue]

I see it as an american Mentality not to want to call someone their master, or sifu.
but as americans wishing to study asian martial arts, it is not our place to inject your own opinions you should go with the flow and keep that tradition alive.

Sorry but that's BS to this American. How about someone making changes in order to teach an Asian art to Americans more efficiently? What's so great about any given tradition and do you keep it going for the sake of the tradition alone?