bung bo

[Oso]

- Use muscles of the hip joint to generate the lifting force. It is more of hip contraction and less of quadriceps and lower leg extension.

good point...i feel like there's a subtle sink and a general contraction inward to the groin at the exact moment of the issue of power...keeps you from overextending the sweeping leg and your balance.


JJMantis: i'm sure I've asked before but I've forgotten: where in VA? I was born in Richmond and get back every once in a while.

[-N-]

good point...i feel like there's a subtle sink and a general contraction inward to the groin at the exact moment of the issue of power...keeps you from overextending the sweeping leg and your balance.

We used to get yelled at if we didn't do the sink

N.

[Oso]

lol, yea... I still remember my first teacher telling me I should quit and go do karate...I think he did that just to pizz me off and train harder.


so, besides 'lower leg sprouting' (which is kind of obscene sounding ) what's the chinese term for the throw here?

[monkeyfoot]

so, besides 'lower leg sprouting' (which is kind of obscene sounding ) what's the chinese term for the throw here?

Not sure, I thought the term was 7* leg sprouting kick

Anyways cheers guys for the replies. I will post back on sunday and share my experiences. Btw - If I was going to sweep with my left leg, is it better to lead right or lead left before I execute the sweep. If im leading right then I have the ability to create more power due to body mechanics, but then if I lead left I will have less chance of telegraphing it....

Whats your thoughts?

craig

[-N-]

The sweep we call "chao tui", lift leg would be the literal translation.

N.

[-N-]

Left vs. right lead. Depends on your setup, depends which lead he uses, depends on his reaction, depends on your preference, depends on your footwork abilities, depends depends depends

I'd say go with your left for now. Don't brute force power through it. Try to develop a feel for the technique. If his "wrong" leg is in front, then use a shin kick to make him move it. Also, you can chao to front of leg as well.

N.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Basic and maybe you know, but i will say it anyway.
My master always told me to sweep to the same direction the toe is pointing on the front leg. regardless of how they point it.
In body mechanics to go any other way digs then in deeper (first hand knowledge from using it). kick the foot or lift it the direction the toe is pointing and they will do the split.
for what its worth.
james

[Oso]

Yep. I don't think that necessarily goes w/o saying...i don't think I naturally said 'ok, i'm gonna do this that way'. most beginners are doing well if they connect w/ the leg and don't fall down...or, at least, that was me back then.


I will add this, one of my favorite things to do is to force a split and then topple them. This means sweeping perpindicular to the centerline of the foot as you say but requires the ability to make a good hopping/hooking/lifiting sweep to get them spread wide enough. NOT saying this is imminently practical...just something I've done before both from inside and outside the gates. I did have one super flexible dude look at me funny like 'wtf, do you think you are trying to do' and I had back peddle in a hurry' but no technique is 100%

[maxiaoyao]

Darkfist :"The principles behind the infamous Bung BU play a part in all my martial training
including the ancient and fierce Baji Quan. i think like the relentless mantis in all my arts. "

Is Ba Ji Quan Ancient? What kind of time line defines ancient nowerdays?

thx - mxy

[Sifu Darkfist]

Ba Ji is one of the oldest of Chinese Martial Arts.
Ancient is used for flavor in this sentence.

And yes whn compared to Tang Lang it as well as Ta JI would be considered ancient.

[monkeyfoot]

Its all relitive, tanglang would be considered ancient if compared to lets say...JKD \
But then when compared to eagle claw its a very modern art.

Hmmm reminds me of the yin yang theory
craig

[Crushing Step]

JJMantis: i'm sure I've asked before but I've forgotten: where in VA? I was born in Richmond and get back every once in a while.

No problems Oso, I think it's been two years since we spoke?

I live in Suffolk.

Back on topic though, I made some personal comparisons of Tong Long and JKD back when I was first fascinated with it's history. The way it was always explained to me, was not only was TL a mixture of styles created by a master, but that it was created specifically for fighting. Not solely as an exercise or a catalog of forms. For that reason, it often amazes students of other styles to see a set played out, because it really does look like a fight. Coming from a background of "look-step-block-punch" type of forms, this was exactly what I needed. But I think even the karate-do based styles aside, TL has that applications based kind of a look and feel even compared to other kung fu.

The next thing that I always heard was that this would have been a higher martial art, originally taught to what we would nowadays call a "black sash/belt" student. It is interesting to note that Bruce Lee was against taking a light study of various arts and mushing them together. He studied lots of arts with high level teachers, and put in tons of personal effort into creating his JKD.

And a last note on JKD, for those who are strongly against all traditional CMA and all use of forms. I believe fully that Bruce Lee's core training in Wing Chun, including the traditions and the forms, are what gave him a strong foundation. To jump straight into JKD with a qualified instructor should be fine, but I would question a lower level student trying to "make up" JKD without a traditional foundation.

I'll revisit this some more, but I know I don't like to read long posts myself!

$.02

[Oso]

that's right.


Mantis as a "Higher Level" martial art:

Would that thread not be tied in to, LGY, and his teaching at the Chin Woo. As in, didn't students there complete a beginning course of 10 forms and then move on to Mantis or Eagle Claw or something? Does that train of thought go back further than that?

In Pong Lai USA, we have a 'basic training' period of 18-24 months of long fist sets and other drills before moving in to mantis sets. However, they have been reconstructed (Pong Lai'd) by Shiye Shi and Shifu Scolaro. The more I practice the true mantis forms, and teach the beginning stuff, the more connections I see and the more totally impressed I am with how well thought out the changes to the longfist material are. There is a real consistancy to it for sure.

[Oso]

didn't really finish my thought there....


there are certainly simpler forms out there than the mantis I've seen. Some hung gar sets and CLF stuff I've seen lately at tournaments are downright boring...especially since they go on for frigging ever....


but, I can see a need for something more basic to set the ground work. especially in a commercial situation where you are catering to the lowest common denominator....hmmm, that sounds bad...well, not everyone who wants to do kung fu is immediately capable of doing it, some can't w/o extreme dedicatioin to training...and by that I mean basic physical attributes...

but, i'm getting way off topic.

[monkeyfoot]

Oso thats quite a long time of basic.

My basic training started with the sets 'sab sei low tam toy' for an introduction and 'gung lik kuen' to build up strength/power in the body. This lasted over a period of 9-10 months although I completed basic a lot quicker as I trained near enough everyday (thats an average time.....takes a while longer if you come into the lowest common denominator catogary ).

Would that thread not be tied in to, LGY, and his teaching at the Chin Woo. As in, didn't students there complete a beginning course of 10 forms and then move on to Mantis or Eagle Claw or something?

I read something similar to that. Although LGY created SSL Tam Toy as an introduction into the mantis style. I wonder if it was still compulsory to learn 10 forms before moving onto mantis when a 'user friendly' introductory set was already created.

craig

oso: I was quite interested in the off-topicness.....I always remember my sifu telling a MASSIVE fat guy, that he would one day be able to back flip over his opponent, if strangled by a spear from behind.....I still think thats bull****.....some people just aren't cut for some styles.