Th Great Grand Master?

[Samson]

I just downloaded the fight between grandmaster william cheung and emin boztepe. William Cheung gets beaten up really badly. How comes? He was a direct student of Yip Man , he is a grandmaster and he claims that he was teaching Bruce Lee at his youth. Bruce Lee was calling William Cheung "The Ultimate Fighter". Some people say that he lost the fight with boztepe because his shoes wasnt very compatible with the situation.

What's the truth? Is that guy a real grandmaster or a clown?
Does he really know wing chun? Would you suggest his lineage and style to someone who wants to start wing chun? Is he not the man at 18 years old who beat up 10 men with knives and did not slip. (fact or fiction) or just growing the rice bowl.

Wong Sheung Leung - Myth VS Reality:

A lot of people claim that wong sheung leung was the "king of hands" , and the best wing chun fighter at that time. People claim that he had more than 200 fights , against muay thai practitioners and other kungfu practitioners and he never lost.
Lots of people suggest his style and lineage , and refer to it as the best lineage/wing chun style. Is this true?

[t_niehoff]

There is a real lesson to be learned from the Cheung-Boztepe fight, but it's not along the lines of your question. Don't be concerned with repuations or stories or these sorts of things -- be concerned with developing your own skill.

The important lesson from Cheung-Boztepe was: this is what fighting looks like. Funny, but it looked like a playground fight, like a NHB fight, like how most fights look. Because that's the nature of fighting. It's not going to look like chi sao or your contrived san sao or your play sparring -- it's going to look like Cheung-Boztepe and like the MMA/NHB fights. So the important question is: is this what you are preparing for? If not, you'll be unprepared.

[Samson]

Good answer! Thanks

[tug]

Link please?

[Hendrik]

this is what fighting looks like. Funny, but it looked like a playground fight, like a NHB fight, like how most fights look. Because that's the nature of fighting. It's not going to look like chi sao or your contrived san sao or your play sparring

So the important question is: is this what you are preparing for? If not, you'll be unprepared.

Everything is relative.

as how fight looks it is also relative. may be some prefer beating others instead of figthing? similar to the one shown in the clip, the big mama is just beating the other guy.

as for prepare, that also a complex issue, prepare for what? next time, attack a friend while he is standing and ps****ing and see what is prepared?

Note: do not try to attack your friend when he is ps****ing. trying it at your own risk!

[Ultimatewingchun]

As William Cheung is my sifu, and as I'm one of his most senior students here in the United States - I find it necessary to respond to this thread (even though I suspect it's just another troll job).

First of all, there's a lot more to that incident than what meets the eye (ie.- the tape was edited); and secondly, as I knew how good he was way before I ever met him, (was told many years earlier by my first wing chun instructor, Moy Yat, - also a direct student of Yip Man - that William Cheung was the best fighter out of all of Yip Man's students)...and as I have come to see first hand over the last 22 years that he really is a true master of the art of wing chun...I'm not that concerned about the tape in question - or how it may or may not have affected William Cheung's reputation in the eyes of some.

All that said, however...Terence does make a good point:

Anybody can slip on a banana peel...or be caught on a slippery floor with thin shoes on...or simply taken by surprise...or perhaps is simply not prepared to do more than punch and kick while standing at a comfortable distance from their opponent - and find themselves on the floor, being pinned down, and then the punches start coming.

Real fights DO often go to the ground...very often, in fact.

So frequent hard sparring - and crosstraining within the clinch and grappling ranges...IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE, imo.

[Hendrik]

have you p**** on your pant due to some reason? if yes then that is a nature of human. I have done it many many time including one time before the upper management meeting. boy everyone must be notice.

then, after one p**** on one's pant, next time, one learn to not screw up like before.

so? what to talk about when saw others **** on thier pant?
trying to look for a man who never ****ed on his pant?

can you find one? tell me.

[Thaegen]

E. Boztepe his base is Wing Tsun, he was the head of WT in Turky, but he left the WT organisation. Don't know why.
Anyway I would like to see the clip. And what is most important to be good in WT or being a good fighter. I want the last.

[Hendrik]

speaking about WCK and history,

General Chen Kuo-Fan of Qing dynasty, lost most of his army to the Taiping, so, he jump into the river to commit suicide due to the shame, and at that time, one of his shipman caught him and pull him out.

Years later, Chen destroy the Taiping into dust. what a great true general of the Qing Dynasty. is he unbeatable?

[Samson]

E. Boztepe his base is Wing Tsun, he was the head of WT in Turky, but he left the WT organisation. Don't know why.
Anyway I would like to see the clip. And what is most important to be good in WT or being a good fighter. I want the last.

Go to Detroit wingchun.com

[t_niehoff]

When I said that "this is what a fight looks like" I didn't mean that someone could slip on a banana peel (although I suppose that could happen too), I meant that the Cheung-Boztepe fight followed basically the same pattern of most fights -- stand up, to clinch, to ground. Very few fights end standing up. Very few fights end with someone being knocked out while standing (unless it is a sucker punch). Because, it's natural when anyone is being overwhelmed to grab the other guy and clinch to stop being hit -- boxer's do it, NHB fihgters do it, everyone does it. If you knock someone down, you follow them down to finish it (or they'll get back up and you will have lost the advantage).

The reason that the Cheung-Boztepe fight is the laughing stock of WCK -- or more accurately, made WCK such a laughing stock -- is because netiher WCK fighter appeared to be using WCK, at least not how they train it or how they portray it in their articles, videos, etc.. In other words, they talk one thing (do this or that) and end up doing another. In contrast, the Gracies say to do exactly what they do: take him down, mount him, submit him. The walk their talk. They train to fight exactly how they fight. Whereas with Chueng-Boztepe, all the bong, tans, fooks, get to the blind side, etc. went out the window when the fight was on. NonWCK people will ask: if the grandmasters can't use that stuff when they fight, then what's the use of training it?

[Ultimatewingchun]

"When I said that 'this is what a fight looks like' I didn't mean that someone could slip on a banana peel (although I suppose that could happen too)..." (Terence)


FIRST OF ALL, who said that my response was meant to quell any doubts that Terence may have in his head about William Cheung, TWC blindside strategy, or anything else of that nature?


MOST IMPORTANTLY....my post was to respond to Samson - WHO I NOW KNOW IS TROLLING - as the Detroit website he's directed us to belongs to none other than Cedric Grayson (aka...Ali Hamad Rahim). The biggest troll of all.

Need I say more about that?!

As to this:

"The reason that the Cheung-Boztepe fight is the laughing stock of WCK -- or more accurately, made WCK such a laughing stock -- is because neither WCK fighter appeared to be using WCK, at least not how they train it or how they portray it in their articles, videos, etc.. In other words, they talk one thing (do this or that) and end up doing another. In contrast, the Gracies say to do exactly what they do: take him down, mount him, submit him. The walk their talk. They train to fight exactly how they fight. Whereas with Chueng-Boztepe, all the bong, tans, fooks, get to the blind side, etc. went out the window when the fight was on. NonWCK people will ask: if the grandmasters can't use that stuff when they fight, then what's the use of training it?"..... (Terence)

YOU'RE TROLLING TOO, Terence, with that BJJ nut-hugger talk.

Are you going to tell us that you DON'T train tan, bong, fook ???

Oh you're not saying that ???!!!

No...I didn't think you were, counsellor.

[Thaegen]

I just saw the clip and I have no idea what I saw... who was who ....

[Phil Redmond]

Samson, anyone could sneak up on you and blindside you while you're looking away. It's funny how the trolls don't ever fill out their profile info. I wonder why
PR

[Phil Redmond]

Nice try Samson...lol. You're talking about an ambush of a older man who was a seminar circuit and wasn't training personally for fighting by a younger who was training for the ambush.
Let's see, Ali, Royce Gracie, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, and many other fighters have lost fights. Does that menat they can't fight?

Victor, I don't think that post came from Ali's camp. I think it's some one here in Detroit trying to create problems.
Phil