Old Internal Masters and there training!

[omarthefish]

Thank you for the kind words but....

AAaaRRGG!!!

I feel so dumb for not seeing it. I know that "can". "Cankao de can" (参考) duh!

Count,

Definately make that change. I have to pm Bob now. It's not even classical Chinese really. Grammatically it kind of is but I guess I just had one of those proverbial brain ****s with "can". It happens.

Omar

p.s. Thanks SPJ for your help.

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks Taiji Bob, how old is Taiji Ball training? I enjoy Dr Yangs info, i have a few of his books, although not his ball training maybe i will look into his Taiji ball and see how different it is to my systems Buddhist method of ball training.


The ball chi kung is that without holding the wooden ball?

cheers
Garry

[SPJ]

Omar;

The text is from the first sentence of Ba Gua Quan Ge, or Ba Gua boxing song.

There are 10 more sentences.

a quick summary;

2. walk like a wind, stand like --

3. waist like--, Qi is the flag, --

4. walk like a dragon, sit like a tiger, move like a river flows and stand like a mountain.

5. Yin Yang hand, flip up and down, --

6. carry 6 harmonies, ---

7. Bai Kou Bu, --

8. Hand hitting 30% and foot hitting 70%--

9. Hip hitting while walking, shoulder to strike, --

10. too high not stopped, too low not intercepted, --

11. boxing method essentials in a few words, without practice, everything is in vain.

[Nexus]

My teacher recommend wearing weights instead of lifting them. I wear a 20 pound weighted belt and wrist weights while I do my Ba Gua,also do bag work wearing weighted boxing gloves also recommend by my teacher. Both work great. I do cardio as well and sparr every week twice.

Training someone to practice w/ weights is often done. It is not a replacement for ball qi gong, it is apples and oranges, both are fruits and good for you!

The effect of course is in having the weights removed, noticing the huge increase in power (speed w/ strength) and by training slow, you build up stabilizer muscles. good work.

[Tingjid]

Greetings..

I use several spheres (gotta watch the ambiguous use of certain words, here).. a 5.2 pound 8 inch diameter cherry wood..

Hey TaiChiBob, where did you get your wooden sphere, I've only ever been able to find stone. Is it a local thing for you or online? I've been looking for a while but with no luck, thanks for any help.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

From our recent seminar, these are some of the links we found..

· Greatbaytaichi.com

· charlestauber@yahoo.ca
Wood/type Laminations Diameter Weight Price (1) Price (10)
Alder 4 8 3.7 $108 $102
Spruce 4 8 3.9 $153 $146
Butternut 2 8 3.9 $110 $104
Willow 4 8 4.1 $89 $84
Poplar (Yellow) 2 8 4.1 $95 $90
Spanish Cedar 2 8 4.7 $112 $106
Fir (Douglas) 2 8 4.7 $106 $101
Elm (grey) 4 8 4.8 $87 $83
Cherry 4 8 4.8 $142 $135
Walnut 4 8 5.3 $118 $112
Yellow Pine 2 8 5.4 $85 $81
Ash 2 8 5.8 $104 $99
Mahogany 3 8 5.8 $148 $141
Maple 4 8 6.1 $105 $99
Beech 4 8 6.3 $103 $98
Oak (red) 4 8 6.3 $114 $108
Paduak (African) 4 8 6.5 $126 $120
Teak 4 8 6.7 $242 $230
Apple 6 8 7.3 $117 $111
Bubinga 4 8 8.5 $147 $140
Composites
Maple with 1/2" Purpleheart center 5 8 7 $131 $124
Maple with 1" Purpleheart center 5 8 7.8 $131 $124

· Glacialwood Products glacialwood@tds.net
7" Maple or Oak 7" Cherry 8" Maple or Oak 8" Cherry 9" Maple or Oak 9" Cherry
$52.47 $56.39 $70.89 $76.19 $90.88 $97.68

Good luck, and.. Be Well...

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Bob,

What are the best type of wood for chi gung ball? I know certain trees are better then others so i guess the type of wood you play for ball is the same, any info there?

regards
Garry

[Ronin22]

Greetings..

fiercest tiger: Dr. Yang did 3 hours of Qinna on Friday evening (quite enough for one weekend, i'm typing with my elbows).. 6 hours of Taiji Ball on Saturday, excellent energy work.. and, 6 hours of combat applications on Sunday.. all in all a great seminar.. He presents good science to back up energies and their relationships to Taiji without removing all of the mystical possibilities.. he can back up all of his talk with decisive action.. and, he has a great sense of humor..

We spent a fair amount of time working on correct breathing (Taoist, reverse abdominal breathing) and coordinated physical movement.. what a difference fine-tuning makes..

I use several spheres (gotta watch the ambiguous use of certain words, here).. a 5.2 pound 8 inch diameter cherry wood.. a 15 pound medicine ball.. and a volleyball (for when my arms get tired).. the training set lasts about 40 minutes and is about half of the total set.. neatly, Dr. Yang convincingly showed us how to relax and move softly even while working with heavy spheres.. power magnified!

If you are familiar with flat plate exercises, the wooden spheres really work well rather than the plates.. Taiji Ball Qigong is a superior training discipline, i highly recommend it.. but, it is detailed and requires complex breathing coordination (which is becoming more natural day by day)..

Be well..

TaiChiBob

Is reverse abdominal breathing where your stomach pushes outward on the inhale? Or do I have that backwards?

[Tingjid]

TaiChiBob

Is reverse abdominal breathing where your stomach pushes outward on the inhale? Or do I have that backwards?

Not to step on toes there Bob, but that's an easy one, so please excuse my answering for you.

Reverse breathing, or Taoist breathing is when you inhale and the stomach goes in as opposed to a natural breath where the stomach expands with the lungs. So yeah that was just backwards. I tend to enjoy them both but stick more to the natural breath for relaxation purposes, I supose I should train more with the reverse breath.

If I may expand on the question, what do you think the benefits of the reverse breath are?

Also thanks for answering the ealier question about the ball.

EDIT: Also do you know why it's called Taoist? I never really thought about it, I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to look up so I will, but might as well ask also

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Reverse abdominal breathing the abdominal muscles (lower than the stomach muscles) contract while inhaling, the chest sinks inward and the "floor muscles" contract upward (sealing the bottom gate).. this forces the air/Qi mix into the DanTien while pumping out Qi (into the microcosmic circulation and subsequently into applications) due to the contractions from all directions.. considering that the inhaling usually occurs during a defensive retreat (backwards movement) the combination of movements is referred to as "Triple Yin", likewise the expanding abdominals combined with forward movement and attacking intent is referred as "Triple Yang".. it is noteworthy that the expanding abdominals are not "relaxed", they expand in the same way as when you might push a car or lift weights, creating a resilient support structure for the organs.. to further complicate this breathwork, there is an intricate skeletal manipulation resulting in a "spinal wave".. as the abs contract during inhaling, the MingMen pushes outward while the hips tuck gently under and upward (pelvic tilt).. then, as you exhale the spine rolls upward into the shoulders, the chest expands releasing the stored energy in the compressed DanTien and bowed back expressing it through the shoulders and into the application of the arms/hands.. as if there were not enough to consider, during inhaling there is a slight lowering of the center of gravity storing additional energy in the quads, which also release their energy as you rise into the exhale.. WHEW!!!

Buddhists, generally, pursue enlightenment and are fond of the relaxation inspired by Normal Abdominal Breathing (NAB).. Taoists, being a bit Martial, find the added Qi circulation and increased ability to direct the Qi application from Reverse Abdominal Breathing (RAB) to have an enhancing effect on their pursuits.. Personally, i find value in both.. my martial training is supported by RAB, and my meditations for spiritual development utilize NAB.. NAB is often associated spiritual development and enlightenment, while RAB is linked to longevity, health, and physical cultivation, including enhanced martial abilities.. Balance seems appropriate to me.. While many people discount spiritual development, it is a superior tool for developing intense focusing skills and remarkable clarity.. spiritual and physical development are just yin and yang aspects of our martial quests..

Considering the additional Qi pumped into the microcosmic circulation and necessary detail of alignment structure to facilitate its circulation.. it is advisable to seek experienced guidance in developing Reverse Abdominal Breathing.. we can unintentionally create blockages or over-abundances which will counter the intended purpose and potentially cause other problems.. Although initially we will exaggerate the spinal wave and the contraction/expansions of the abdomen, after developing the process it is quite subtle.. and, can be really quick in its expression and transition, hence the martial implication.

I hope this helps.. the rewards are worth the effort to develop this process..

Be well..

[Ronin22]

Thanks Ting for the answer......


Holy crap TCB thats a lot to digest and a great post, you are a sage. Of course this opens up more questions for me like:

How do you practice this breathing? Is it done sitting, standing? Is there any movement involved?

I know I should pick up a book on it but I'm just looking for a brief explanation for some understanding
Thanks





Peace

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Ronin22: First, we try to develop the mechanics of contracting abdominals during the inhaling process and expanding during exhaling.. this can be done as you wish.. i recommend standing to develop correct alignments and intentions.. initially, as we become familiar with Yi (mind) leading Qi, the process will be slow and detailed.. we go through the process of building a path through our alignment structure so the Qi can flow smoothly and quickly.. at high levels (i'm not suggesting i am there yet ) one's Yi (intention) is focused on its target and the path trained manifests itself at the same instant, this is "internalization"..

Imagine that the legs and hips/waist are the "hand" that holds the "whip".. the whip is the spine/arms.. like a sine wave, the Qi and alignment roll upward along the spine and outward through the arms/hands.. and, the breathing pattern is the motivation that moves this unique symphony of energies..

Good luck! and, Be well..

[fiercest tiger]

Great post Bob!!

I like to add that the spine wave also makes use of the 3 pumps, Perineium, sacrum and cranial pumps which will help you achieve the microcosmic cycle with the correct breathing and mind.

Bob,

Does your Taiji ball make use of the spine wave also?

Kind regards
Garry

[count]

Diaphram! Lungs!


Great posts though TCB.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Tai Chi Ball Qigong is very focused on the spinal wave.. in fact, the ball training is to enhance awareness of this critical process.. as Count correctly points out, one of the effects of the spinal wave and of Tai Chi Ball training is to more efficiently utilize the diaphragm and lungs, to express the stored kinetic energies in the bowed spine and sunken chest.. Similarly, in receiving an opponent's energies we sink our center of gravity while storing those energies in the legs, sink the chest/bow the back storing energies in the spine and sternum regions and inhale while drawing in the abdomen.. all our physical movements are drawing in the opponents energies, storing them and waiting for the opponent to reach their extremity.. at their extremity they must transition (either back or ahead).. at the transition we release their energies we have stored, adding to their intention of transition and adding a small amount of our own energies.. the result, if properly applied and timed, is a compounded return of energies over-balancing their intended application.. subtle and irresistable..

Sticking and adhering while calmly applying the mechanics of the spinal wave is a very deceptive action.. no sudden and alarming movements, no alerts that cause immediate alarmed responses.. a soft but powerful building of force.. that is not to say that the potential for FaJing is not immediate and available, but deep art is present in the subtle controlling of powerful forces.. some of you guys have seen your opponent's puzzled look that says "why am i falling" We deal with remarkable potentials, deep and profound levels of self-control.. and, explorations into the very nature of "being".. We have chosen a remarkable journey, this Taiji..

But, Taiji IS Yin and Yang.. as softly as we can express our control, it is balanced with our ability to so suddenly whip a FaJing application that the opponent's awareness of impact becomes observable as we return to a neutral position.. that same puzzled look of "why does that hurt so much"..

It is, indeed, a pleasure to share insights with you guys.. exchanging experiences and lessons so that the Art, as a whole, can be preserved and advanced.. Thank you all for the kind thoughts and sincere interests..

Be well..