Ghetto Blocks

[Eddie]

Please explain to me the rascist nature of the term "Boers," as it appears to be Afrikaans/Dutch. It is not at all the same as ****** since this epithet for African-Americans derives from twisting of Niger, Negro (used negatively in themselves) as a specifically negative terminology.

In the last few decades, people have started using this term in a derogatory manner, in the same way as that the Chinese use Hei gui 黑鬼 to address black people, even though down here, it has almost become the acceptable term to use amongst the Chinese community. It’s the meaning that goes with that term which is offensive, and you would not even begin to understand, unless you start looking at our country’s history from a South African point of view or at least someone who has actually been here.

Actually, "Afrikaner" was the term I intended to use but I have not visited the South African population-demographics issue for sometime now. …… Since no one other than "whites" have coined the term, it is they to whom you will have to argue the merits, or lack thereof, concerning it.

Afrikaner is probably a better word, South African would be more accurate. Afrikaners are black, white, coloured, whatever. Pretty much a nation as you stated as for being American.

Afrikaans is a derivative/dialect of European languages with elements of non-European languages contained therein, just as the American dialect of English is European/English with elements of African, Native-American, etc. languages mixed in.

It’s a complete language and not just a dialect. Sure, when I speak slowly, people in Belgium and Holland would understand, but they would probably just pick up the bud ends of the conversation. I am not sure why I need to defend my language and culture with some one who has obviously no idea on this matter. Theoretical knowledge in this case is pointless. You have a very limited understanding on this topic, your academical talk, however impressive I may be, shows you have no clue.

In the States, the word Coloured is a derrogatory word harking back to a rather out dated concept of "race." It is a rather regressive understanding of what is more properly viewed as ancestry.

Well, down here it is a term we use, and even the people who fall under that racial group use this term to describe themselves. And in this sentence “It is a rather regressive understanding of what is more properly viewed as ancestry…” you answer your own question on the “ Boer” issue.

It only matters how you can be defined ancestrally that can determine your ancestry.

Ok, you seem to be very hung up on this ancestry thing. You are completely missing the point of it all. In fact, you are completely missing the point of what being “ African” is all about. You don’t need to validate yourself or your ancestry, you are American, you may have some roots in Africa, but you are NOT African. This point seem to upset you allot. Traditionally speaking, you’d find it very hard to be accepted by the local African people (Im speaking Southern Africa here). It also shows me that you have a very twisted idea of this place and her people. You might be in for a HUGE culture shock. Be prepared for that.

As to your bio, it would not matter if I swapped spit with a Golden Retriever, and barked all day like Shannon The German Sheppard, I would not be a canine

Worthless analogy, not relevant to this topic at all. The Eagle story is cute, but highly irrelevant in this case. Im African… Born and bred here.. I have the same colour blood as my friend Mbusaso. Do you really find that so hard to believe? You seem to have a very big misconception about white Africans.

Tracing your family tree with certainty is less important than the genetic markers that would trace your ancestry back to Europe. You have said that you have Dutch, French and German Ancestry in your tree. How could you know that without tracing it with accuracy?

I believe the Keyword there is “ with accuracy”.

I know nothing about European culture (other than the Hallmark traditions we all share in the West today). I cant go and argue with someone from Holland for example, over cultures and traditions that stems from his country and her people. That’s just mad.

I am not interested in what people are selling as African. I know what is and what is not since I am involved in many African traditions, especially martially

Have you lived in Africa before? Better yet, have you ever been to Africa? If so, exactly where have you been? Exactly which African traditions do you follow. In my country we have 11 Official languages, each language group has their own cultural aspects. Some minor deviations from others, but in some cases the differences are HUGE. Non the less, we still have our own Southern African culture, which means I can understand, respect and unite with someone from this region, whether they be black, white- whatever. We are … AFRICAN after all.

It is doubtful that you have had experience with any African-Americans personally, and certanly, if at all, not beyond a seminar or tourist visit, yet you think you are qualified to speak on our thinking.

The same goes for you. I have experienced African Americans on tours (as you say), but I also know a few who live down here now. Down the road from us lives an “ African American”. Even those people admit to the culture shock.

In the same breath, you have not experienced Africa – or her people and cultures – in a way to qualify you to speak out about African Combat Arts or the culture surrounding that. All Martial Arts are deeply rooted in culture, which is also very much influenced by way of life and standard of living. You have obviously never had to sleep in a metal sink house with only a paraffin stove and candles to give you light You have obviously never had to use an outside communal toilet, or wash yourself in a small bucket of cold water every single day, or slaughter a cow, or drank the blood from a new born goat, or eat sheep brains, or or or … You have NO IDEA, other than the academical knowledge you may have, about what it is to be living in this continent, how do you actually think you will understand how they fight? You don’t even understand the basic psychology behind their strategy. I have never been in prison, I cannot become an expert on prison fighting arts just because I read up on it? You can try to explain to me what a Mc Donnalds Burger taste like, but unless I taste it for myself, all I will ever have is theoretical knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less. I am talking African fighting arts here – Im not talking fighting in general- just to be clear. I don’t know you, and don’t doubt your fighting skill or knowledge.

Let me tell you something; the overall sensibilities of African-Diasporans, at their core, are essentially African in behavior. Did you know that what is called rap is a form of combative poetry traditonally done by the Kwisamina linguistic poets of The Democratic Republic Of The Congo? Did you know that African herbalogy, rituals, speech patterns, body movements/poses, etc., hairstyles, dance patterns, etc., abound within African-American culture. Names like Fall, Bey, et al, are African. African hand gestures, handshakes, etc., are AFRICAN.

Those are basterdised, watered down “ Traditions” that have become part of your African American culture. It doesn’t make you African, just as me following certain Chinese traditions (in Martial Arts eg) doesn’t make me an authority on Chinese Culture. Those are hardly true indications of what Real African Culture is all about.

[Eddie]

My teacher from the DRC played a recording of traditonal music that is identical to music played by Africans from the Southern part of the states. The Banjo is AFRICAN. Rice cultivation from here derives from African rice cultivation. The same with African knowledge of blacksmithing. Are you kiddin' me?

Music from Congo has French influence too. Stringed instruments like Guitar or Banjo has their origins in non African cultures. Prior to that, you’d probably only have single stringed musical instruments. BUT, music and rhythm is what defines Africa. You wont ever know what I am talking about, unless you have actually spend considerable time over here. And not in hotels either. I mean in REAL Africa.

I know nothing about rice cultivation or blacksmithing. In my region (Southern Africa) I doubt that there are allot of rice cultivating going on. Perhaps in some of the coastal areas. I cannot comment on that.

I know more about African culture and martial arts than you'll ever know. I have forgotten more than you know. I am beginning to learn a Thri-Venda and Shona art right now! Please stop it!

From reading books and articles on the net? You kidding me? Im not claiming to know much about African culture, but I am saying I have grown up with this very same culture. Very closely. Its something I see EVERY SINGLE day. I am here, right in the middle of it. You see, this is why I say you have some weird fantasy about what you think you know. I know what Venda is, I even know basics of the language, I don’t know what Thri Venda is. I speak Zulu – well enough to survive down here, and well enough to earn respect from older people. Allot of whites speak these languages, not cause we learned it in school, but because either we had black “ nannies” who helped raised us, or we grew up in areas with a bigger black population than a white population. See, we get to learn culture and customs from the source, not from the net or books. I get to see and experience African culture and Africa, not by choice, but because I live here. You seem to think all White South Africans are colonialists who sit in their big white Victorian houses drinking tea and reading Byron books. You couldn’t be more wrong.

To call 52 Handblocks, Alto 52, Comstock and BumRush JHR shows how little anyone researching this art really knows. Not one practitioner of this variant of the art calls this system JHR. If you said JHR to them, they would not know what you are talking about (unless they look at popular media, thus gaining knowledge of the renaming of things they have done all of their lives).

Hence my comments on it not being African.

Danmyete is the name of a practioner of Danmye. Majo is the name of a Danmye expert.

Never heard of this. Neither did my friend. What language is that, and where can I find references to this art?

To say that the San, or reLated peoples, such as the Kung!, have Chinese ancestry, in order to attempt to explain the epicanthic fold as party of their eyelids is the most ludicrous, King Solomon's mines BS the world is likely to hear.

I never claimed to be an anthropologist, I merely stated what has been in the media as of late. Perhaps do a google search, or visit news24.co.za or related sites with info in this matter. Take it up with the people who mentioned this. We even have a local tv add for Camphor cream that claims that the Chinese introduced some type of medicine to Africa, and that the Africans then swapped other types of medicine with the Chinese. I really have little knowledge on this, but will check to see if I can find references.

To say that the San, or reLated peoples, such as the Kung!,

You keep mentioning this Kung!. I have no idea who you are referring to here. Please can you tell me which people are you talking about?

Given that certain periods of the Southern portion of the continent can become quite cold, these, and not supposed genetic diffusion from some unknown Chinese naval voyage, are to explain the features you are attempting to ludicroulsy assign eslewhere.

Southern Africa really doesn’t get that cold. I have only once seen snow in Africa, and I had to travel to a high mountain to go see it. The San is from the Kalahari – hardly any snow down there. These features you mention are typical of ‘ snow gazers’, which the San people are not. Ok, given the fact – it is very windy over at the Kalahari, and there are allot of sand, suppose that does make some sense. Anyway, this was never meant to be an anthropology lesson, non of this change the fact that I am African, and you are NOT. You don’t like that, do you?

Chinese and Indians never reached inner Africa/Monomatapwa/the related Shona/Venda rock hewn villages/cities. Their goods did through a trade network controlled by Africans, just as African goods went to China and India via this same network.

Well there are historical proof that seem to indicate other wise. I don’t buy into the African sailor idea – Have you ever been to East Africa? Have you seen how primitive their boat making skills are? But I admit that I am no historian either. You do seem to be very academically inclined, I would love to learn what you know on this subject.

What African arts are being sold as non-sense: Mani, Capoeira, Danmye, Mrenge, Yuna Onse, Side-Hold (an African-American wrestling tradition identical to Igbo Mgba)?

I have never even heard of those other arts. I see allot of Capoeira down here. I see the way white people do Capoeira, and I see the way black people do Capoeira. White people (even Brazilians) don’t have the same rhythm, and the same cultural outlook as the black people. Capoeira Angola is probably closest to what I see in African fighting arts, although it has also been diluted and blended with Brazilian culture. Apart from a small minority of people who live in the coastal areas, allot of African people don’t even know about Capoeira. The ones who do, seem to all have some kind of Portuguese link. It hardly qualify to represent African Fighting Arts or culture.

If you look at Johnny Clegg music videos (Jaluka or Savuka was his band’s name). The way they danced on stage, that can give you an idea of what real African fighting arts would look like. I will explain my views in another post. Im trying to see if I can get some pictures and other reference material to post with that. I think it could be education for me too, to do this little exercise. Hoping by the weekend it will be done.

By the way, my immediate family hails from Virginia. The concentration of Africans there are Igbo. I also have family from Georgia. The concentration there is "Bantu"/Central African/Angolan.

Bantu is Zulu (it means people), which means they must hail from Kwazulu Natal area, a province down next to the South East coast of South Africa (its called the Zulu kingdom).

Our foods, like Ocre, have African origins. Frying, as done with African-American Fried Chicken, here in the States, is African (though we had to substitute Palm Oil with Crisco). Barbecueing, as done here, is African

Nope, not so. Very little frying in African cooking methods. “Barbecueing” is probably close, but what I have seen, the American way does not come close to the African way. That is just as much part of my own South African culture, as it is part of African culture (but personally I’m a vegetarian).

I wonder if you would really be able to stomach real African food.

The "Ol' Time Religion" spoken of in African-American Christian congregations is our pre Christian, African religions.

Black Christians down here seemed to have been able to find a good way to mix Christianity with their ancient cultural beliefs. Although they are still more “African” than they are “Christian”. Its pretty hard to describe though. African culture, and African religion is pretty much the same thing.

[Eddie]

I am learning Mavili, so please stop it with your supposed African authority ideas.

I’m living in Africa, grew up here, live closely together with Africans. I know no other culture, even though I may be white, I am still African, whether I (or you) like it or not. We (Black and white Africans) share cultural aspects, and we have traded customs and culture with each other. The last 500 years or so, we have had to learn to live together, whether we liked it or not. I am not a foreigner to my own continent s you may want to suggest. I have more right than you to claim heritage to this place. My “ knowledge” on this subject is NOT theoretical or academical, it comes from growing up with these cultures, from active participation (in more ways that you can ever imagine). I don’t have distorted ideas on this topic, in actual fact, if I really need info on this matter, Im sure I can find an expert within a 1 kilometer radius from my house. Heck, I’m sure if I walk outside my front gate I will probably find someone who knows more about this issue than you will ever know. There are allot of REAL warriors down here. When it comes to violence and combat, Africa has no time and place for fake things. Africa is tuff, her people are tuff, their culture is tuff. I say it again, there is no way you would even begin to know what I am talking about, unless you have spend enough time down here. No Idea I tell you!

I Thanks for the discourse. See ya at the Cattle Deeps (The Musangwa). I will use my Thari for spiritual aid. BTW, this is not a challenge, lest you think I am acting agressively inhospitable. I am simply letting you know that I am well aware of my cultural traditions.

I don’t know what a Musangwa is, neither does my friend next to me, or the cleaning lady that was cleaning the office just now. I know its not a challenge. If I know one thing, in Africa, there is a strange kind of respect and loyalty amongst warriors, yet people are strangely very hostile towards each other (talk about racists amongst these African cultures), but when it comes to unity, there is no other People in the world who can beat them. Africans are extremely loyal to each other and very protective when they need to stand together. Sad that it seem to only happen when they are threatened by outsiders…

If you ever in the Region, I would like to show you the REAL Africa. Introduce you to REAL Africans, and let you experience REAL African fighting arts. You can teach me all bout American and Western culture – you could even try some sparring with a REAL African, any style, even western boxing. You can see the culture in everything - now that would be cool don’t you think?

[TenTigers]

The guy who showed me Jailhouse Rock called it that, and picked it up in Gladiator School-Washington Correctional Facility. In Elmira, it was also called that. My other friend who learned it in Rikers, also called it that, but also knew of the Comestock Shuffle. Another guy just called it "J-Rock". Terms like 52, creasing,Bumrush might be west coast. I have only seen them in articles, never around here. Of course now you will hear 52 handblocks because it's in music.
I see kids in the street doing the elbow thing, you can tell they don't really know it-just posers- because when they get to fighting-it all goes out the window. They also don't have the footwork, which some of looks like uprock, or the jinga. One guy I knew had the weirdest footwork-it was a zig-zag shuffle approach, whith the hands doing the "What! WHAT!?" thing , and he would be on you before you realized. There was a real big intimidation factor, which causes you to hesitate, and then the rush. Scary sh1t, when it's bein done to you.

[SevenStar]

The guy who shared some with me called it that as well. He also referred to it as 52 blocks. If I'm not mistaken, dennis newsome also refers to it as JHR.

[Buby]

The guy who shared some with me called it that as well. He also referred to it as 52 blocks. If I'm not mistaken, dennis newsome also refers to it as JHR.

To be honest, I've never know it to be JHR. I guess my uncle thought I was to young to ever bother telling me it's name. At the beginning of this thread I thought he didn't know the name, but when I went back and asked him he knew the name right off the bat.

Ten - I can definitly see the uprook in the footwork, even some of the hands(I learned to dance uprock from my uncle, he was part of DTR - Down To Rock and was also a Lynch Boys(Block Gang)). I think its effectiveness is in the faints. Plus, when they sart doing the footwork w/ hands the first thing that goes through your mind is WTF!LOLOLOLOL I don't see it as anything special anymore since everone and their moms fights like that out here. Its like any fighting system, you have you high level players and then you got your posers. I can assure you that the most of dudes learning it in jail are no posers. Except those that were someone else's biotch.LOLOLOL And fake the funk! But the hood is small and word gets around.LOLOLOL

Buby

[danmyete]

Let me start by asking you to define a black person. From where do they come, what language do they speak, etc.

I actually went to school with an Afrikaner in the 80s. Not once did he include Xhosas, Zulus, Vendas, Shangons, BaPede, etc., as Afrikaners. Its a ludicrous premise. My phenotype does not derive from North America. It derives from Africa. Specifically Igbo and Congolese/Angolan.

What theoretical knowledge am I talking about with African combatives. The fact that you are not aware of Mavili, there in South Africa, speaks for itself. Bringing up cleaning people, etc., who have not heard of such things is ludicrous. Here is an art that I practice: LIBANDA. Please do not attempt to tell me about my traditions. In a line up with people who are its custodians, I would be indistinguishable from the ethnic groups who created it. You would not. I do not theorize about it, I do it. Mani is a Congoloese MA, unless of course you have facts to attempt to assert to my "teacher" that his history of its lineage is incorrect...Its martial movements are the same as those found in Ogun's BLADE COMBATIVES. Look: here's what you do. Before speaking on this subject, at least read T.J. Obi's work on the Ongolo. The idea that there are "Brazilian influences" on it, as if Brazilian culture is somehow devoid of African cultural influences (Capoeira being among these), and as to suggest that these supposed influences are "non-African," is silly. The Igbos had an artform called Ntle Ukwu, a devasting kicking art used to amin and kill thru kicking and scissoring. Within the Hausa'a Dambe, there is Kwambo. In Libanda, there is Nzanga, Biboto, Mokoto, Mutu and Nyembes.

Let me stop here and cease this silly discourse. Anyone wishing to discuss African combatives, please, let us do do.

Seko Silibanda

[danmyete]

Danmye:

Hand Striking: Cocoye (Open Hand Strikes) and Roin Poin (Swinging Fist Strikes). Striking can be done with one or both hands at the same time, another feature marking its African origins as seen in Libanda and Mrenge, for example.

The Quimbois is the spiritualist whose traditions derive from Central African spiritual traditions. It is also cognative of Haitian Vodun. Central African patterns include tree shrines to the Ancestors, as is/was done in the African-American south. It is he who spiritually empowers a Danmyete prior to a bout. Empowerment included, for Danmyete, sleeping in a space once accupied by a Bull in order to absorb its energy. Herbal medicines were also used.

Elbowing, kneeing, kicking, grappling, sweeping/tripping and headbutting along with defensive escapes and blocks constitute its combative core.

Central African drumming, Bantu Drumming from Central Africa, with the Ti-Bwa, is used as rhythm keeper in Danmye, the performative aspect of 'Ladja De La Morte,' Ladja Of Death as it was known during African enslavement on Martinique. The treverse drum, or lying the drum on the ground and playing it with hands and the heel of one foot is a common Central African drumming patter. Majo, Ladja experts, were pitted against each other on plantations during bouts arranged by Plantation owners. Ladja became a composite art form from previously related but separate Central African combatives. There are also related blade and stick fighting traditions.

This is simply a brief idea of some the African arts currently extant.

[Fu-Pow]

Let me stop here and cease this silly discourse. Anyone wishing to discuss African combatives, please, let us do do.

Seko Silibanda

You're the one that made it silly to begin with. Now you want to play nice? What a fabulous debut onto this forum....

Anyways, welcome....hope you've figured out that if you want people to take you seriously here then you need to show due respect.

FP

[danmyete]

I did not make anything silly, nor am I "playing nice." Since we are at an impasse, it is time to agree to disagree and move on. My initial posts talked about so-called JHR and what made it African. Instead of a discussion on this , as well as on my views as to why there is an automatic dismissal of the African origins of arts such as Capoeira, etc. what I got were responses like : Acupuncture is believed to have began in Africa too, that doesn't make it more effective ( ) and African-Americans have fantasies about Africa. How does attempting to discuss the relationship between JHR and other African arts relative to their African origin become remotely related to fantasizing about Africa? What does the possible African origins of "Acupuncture," and whether or not it is more effective than the non-African variant (I don't know what the heck that meant), have to do with the relationship between Mani, so-called JHR and the African arts of which I am a practitioner? Absolutely nothing...

If, however, there is a desire to continue the "AFRICAN" discussion then, by all means, let's get busy. Otherwise, let us move on, as there was actually some points from Mickey that I shall address concerning African martial arts.

[Fu-Pow]

If, however, there is a desire to continue the "AFRICAN" discussion then, by all means, let's get busy. Otherwise, let us move on, as there was actually some points from Mickey that I shall address concerning African martial arts.

WTF is a discussion of JHR doing in a Southern Chinese Kung Fu Forum to begin with?

Looks like our mod is sleepin at the wheel again.

Fu-Pow: "How 'bout making the Southern Kung Fu Video thread a sticky."

Sevenstar: "Sorry I'm too busy discussing African combatives in the Southern Kung Fu forum."

How do you become a mod? I'll take it over just tell me how and who to contact. Hell, at this point I'd let hskwarrior be the mod, it'd be better than what we've got now.

[Eddie]

Danmayete,

Are you being serious?! Knowing someone in the 80s hardly qualifies you to tell me about MY culture and MY people. That’s the biggest joke. You obviously know nothing, and your responses indicated that. You try to disguise your lack of real knowledge with clever wording from the bits and pieces you picked up on goog,e, but you don’t really answer anything. I also never argued about being black, I’m happy to be white. I have little ambition to change my race or culture, there is however a HUGE difference between being black and being African. But, this wasn’t the argument. You think you know about African culture and the so called African combat arts, but you obviously know nothing, you still did not even reply to the questions of where in Africa you have ever been. You speak of stuff no one knows about, you mention words no one understands, and you seem to mix up the cultures with their respective demographics. You mention Bantu Drumming from Central Africa, where as the word Bantu is a distinct Zulu term, they hail from Southern Africa. You obviously have no clue. Im not going to argue with you about this anymore, as you are either a troll or just plain ignorant. Either way, I will tell you, you know NOTHING about Africa, nor do you know anything about African fighting arts.

Hand Striking: Cocoye (Open Hand Strikes) and Roin Poin (Swinging Fist Strikes). Striking can be done with one or both hands at the same time, another feature marking its African origins as seen in Libanda and Mrenge, for example.

And heres some more proof. You are trying to make as if African Arts are ass well structured as Asian arts (for example) by even coming up with names for techniques. Tell me, what language are you using. Those are neither Shona nor Nguni terms. Is it some lost African language that African Americans from Virginia speaks?

Its pretty simple to see if something comes from Africa, if you have ever spend time here, you would have known what to look for. What you mention, doesn’t mark African origins.

It is he who spiritually empowers a Danmyete prior to a bout. Empowerment included, for Danmyete, sleeping in a space once accupied by a Bull in order to absorb its energy. Herbal medicines were also used.

So this art you are selling is not practical? One need to prepare for battle to be able to fight to full capacity? Unless you are talking about war strategy, this makes little sense. I can tell you, have you ever heard of African Time? If someone needs to go prepare for the bout first, the chances are that the fight would never happen.

Elbowing, kneeing, kicking, grappling, sweeping/tripping and headbutting along with defensive escapes and blocks constitute its combative core.

More proof to tell me you see it from a WESTERN point of view. But we cant blame you, you are a Westerner after all.

Central African drumming, Bantu Drumming from Central Africa, with the Ti-Bwa, is used as rhythm keeper in Danmye, the performative aspect of 'Ladja De La Morte,' Ladja Of Death as it was known during African enslavement on Martinique. The treverse drum, or lying the drum on the ground and playing it with hands and the heel of one foot is a common Central African drumming patter. Majo, Ladja experts, were pitted against each other on plantations during bouts arranged by Plantation owners. Ladja became a composite art form from previously related but separate Central African combatives. There are also related blade and stick fighting traditions.

African tradition pre dates the Slavery Era in Central Africa. When you talk African Fighting arts, please stick to African fighting arts, and not what some people in the west think were African arts. Also, please supply historical proof of some of your claims. Again, non of those terms makes an sense from an African point of view.

This is simply a brief idea of some the African arts currently extant

No its not. Its only a brief idea of what you, a Westerner non African, American think is part of an African tradition.

Whether or not your art is ligit as a martial / fighting art is irrelevant. It may be practical, it may work, but don’t sell it as something it surely is not.

I am busy with my report on REAL African Fighting Arts, and I will post this on another forum when I am done with it.

I support that this topic be moved.

[TenTigers]

while JHR does have a style within based on fighting while being handcuffed behind the head, which might be related to slavery-era, and the jinga is within the footwork, many of the techniques are purely non-African, and were developed from inmates mingling and trading techniques with other inmates' arts. NYC was a hotbed of Martial Arts in the 70's. Many inner city youths learned Karate, Kung-Fu, etc as it was brought into the youth groups in order to rebuild them and keep them off the streets. Steve Sanders in Cali developed the Black Karate Federation in an attempt at this as well.
In 42nd st, there were triple feature Kung-Fu fliks, you would go in in the morning and come out of the theatres at night. All this was added into the mix, as well as alot of Western Boxing-as it was taught in the gyms, on the streets, and in the PAL groups and youth associations.
I know there will always be techniques that are found in all cultures-as long as we have the same bodies, two arms, two legs, etc/ It is very easy to Afrikanize a technique and claim ancestry. But truth is, there are Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Philippino, western boxing, as well as African techniques in JHR, as the prisons were melting pots, and everything went into the mix.
If you want to start another thread on Afrikan Martial Arts, fine. But don't completely hijack this one. I think there are a few people who have been exposed to JHR in some form or another, and sharing the experience might allow us access to an art that was previously shrouded in mystery, much as Kung-Fu in the past was not taught to non-Chinese.

[hellhound]

references to JHR in rap:

"Yo, we throwin 52 blocks at outside shots to bubble up the snot box
No penalties or shot blocks, it's similar to Comstock, kid
You catch an elbow in this hellhole of concrete
Add a touch of soul before we compete..."



"Allah don't like ugly so I held back from bustin him
I passed the burn off, he caught me from the blind side
Tapped a nigga jaw, I shot my fifty-two style, and crazy raw..."


"Fifty-two cops can't withstand the 52 blocks
Unless they bust like 52 shots
I'm the has been that have not"


"Beat niggaz toothless, physically cut up like gooses
But with iron* on the sides thugs took no excuses
Therefore, your fifty-two handblocks was useless..."


all of the above were by members of the wu tang clan.

And they are from NYC and african-american. I'm not suprised from what I have heard in this thread. It's just that it is not even popular on the whole of the east coast. Seems to just be NYC. Maybe a bit of North Jersey. Oh well.

No-one knows about the numerology thing I guess or it must really only a 5 percenter thing.

The only thing I think we have proven in this thread is that 52 whateva' is an african-american NYC thing and is not some jailhouse style known across the country or even the same coast for that matter. Seems like the NYC peeps like to make it seem if it happens there it happens everywhere. That and too many of you are either law enforcement or seem to hang out with them. Don't forget what I said happened to me at 12 so you can guess how I feel about people like that. Oh and have fun with this nationality conversation that somehow got started as soon as I used the words african-american.

My parting words on this thread is stop conversing about something people use in jail. It's not a place worth having a conversation over unless you are kids in a scared straight program. Anybody can string a load of techniques together and call it something. So something strung together by a prisoner in the 40s does not mean much. You give anything to me and most of the people I know and we could easily pull it off in the middle of a brawl after seeing it once. It is not like a fight or ways to fight is anything new to anyone who's done time in a violent crime ward for a violent crime.

[SevenStar]

Seems like the NYC peeps like to make it seem if it happens there it happens everywhere. That and too many of you are either law enforcement or seem to hang out with them.

What I've seen of it was actually shown to me in tennessee, and not by a cop...