Ghetto Blocks

[TenTigers]

JailHouse Rock is like WuDan,Emei, Hua-Shan, etc. Somebody comes out of te woodwork, does a video or article on something which cannot be substantiated, and makes a killing. It was simply a matter of time. There's a good chance that this guy has never even seen the real deal, and is making a video based on what he has gleaned from the aforementioned articles. You guys are way too trusting.

[fiercest tiger]

Like dale said nasty fighting is nasty fighting, im just interested in hearing the stories how they train. Like what time of day, night , is it secretly taught, do whites have a different style to blacks to the chinese and mexicans etc.

Does anyone have any war stories?

FT

[SimonM]

Training fighting in tight quarters is a good idea. I used to do this all the time back in Canada. My brother and I did knock a few holes in the drywall though...

[Phil Redmond]

JailHouse Rock is like WuDan,Emei, Hua-Shan, etc. Somebody comes out of te woodwork, does a video or article on something which cannot be substantiated, and makes a killing. It was simply a matter of time. There's a good chance that this guy has never even seen the real deal, and is making a video based on what he has gleaned from the aforementioned articles. You guys are way too trusting.

It's possible that the "guy" you're refering to has never seen the real deal but I certainly have. I'm from Brooklyn where many people practice JHR. Just go to Brownsville, Bed Stuy, East New York, or Fort Greene and ask around.
PR

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the information Phil, do you think these jail systems are complete in a sense of ground fighting, striking and of course edge weapons?

I didnt know that they had fighting systems in jail, i thought they just trained themselves inside privately of with room mate?!

I like the one leg on the wall training i may give this a try this week.

Does it use more fist then palms or other certain hand strikes?

anyone care to add?

regards
Garry

Some martial arts/fighting styles were developed out of desperation as were some weapons. JHR is no different. OK it doesn't have ancient traditions and colorful history like kung fu but it works. Here is the article I was looking for:
52_1
52_2
52_3
(You'll have to download and zoom in to be able to read the text).
Phil

[SimonM]

Interesting enough article but I still question if there is anything in this that isn't in any good regimen of martial arts... except for the knuckle kissing but I question the efficacy of such showboating.

Now, mind, deceptive tactics, elbow blocking and blitzes, shoulder blocks and a willingness to inflict GBH on somebody are an important part of the fighting mindset and tactics. I just don't see why someone from a background of WC or Hung Gar or whatever couldn't do the same.

There is elbows in Gong Fu. There are headbutts in Gong Fu. There are knees, stomps, throws, kicks, whatever in Gong Fu. Is there a difference?

That being said this is an interesting historical piece on a non-asiatic martial art and highlights a point I was making in another thread: there is NO one source for all martial knowlege. Two simmilar arts could simultaneously appear on opposite sides of the earth while two dissimilar arts could grow up side by side.

[Ou Ji]

It's pretty much the same thing as any other martial art in it's early days.

Every art started with the need to deal with potentially life threatening situations. Most without acccess to weapons.

Give it enough time and it will turn into a non-lethal self defense fighting style just like th rest of them.

[hellhound]

Well... I dont post much however here's my to yuan.

This is not really true. I grew up in the ghetto and sadly due to a bad lawyer I went to prison for a year for protecting the pregnant mother of my child with a crow bar and a box cutter.

99% of the people I knew in the ghettos only put on gloves and did boxing training to the body only. It was kind of like a ghetto past time.

IME 99% of the hand to hand fights/attacks I have been in they are powder puff punchers.

The worst part of prison was not the riot I was in but having to stay in a small room for 2 weeks straight with 2 other men as punishment for it.

This is pretty untrue IME. There is 1% in hand to hand who are viscous and very kamikaze styled (I myself had to be this way and never "put on the gloves" and instead used viscousness and weapons due to my size). Now I study IMA due to disability.

Guns weren't a thing where I was because the laws were tight (although I had a close one in high school as a by-standard). In other cities where it is very easy and cheap to get guns that is usually what is used so when they go to jail the only the to fear is size after lifting trash bags full of water for a year straight. However there is everything from a hot pot to a sharpened/broken toothbrush to take care of that. I have to say if there is any jail based hand to hand style is it to "put on the gloves" on go for body shots IME.

Now luckily I am a software engineer going on 11 years doing so and a 8 year old daughter and a 4 year old son (they practice XMA). Unluckily I am disabled now due to chronic pain and have to live on Morphine. However my children keep me going at it in work and work-outs.

Hope this helps and did not stray too off topic. Regards!

[Phil Redmond]

Interesting enough article but I still question if there is anything in this that isn't in any good regimen of martial arts... except for the knuckle kissing but I question the efficacy of such showboating.

Now, mind, deceptive tactics, elbow blocking and blitzes, shoulder blocks and a willingness to inflict GBH on somebody are an important part of the fighting mindset and tactics. I just don't see why someone from a background of WC or Hung Gar or whatever couldn't do the same.

There is elbows in Gong Fu. There are headbutts in Gong Fu. There are knees, stomps, throws, kicks, whatever in Gong Fu. Is there a difference?

That being said this is an interesting historical piece on a non-asiatic martial art and highlights a point I was making in another thread: there is NO one source for all martial knowlege. Two simmilar arts could simultaneously appear on opposite sides of the earth while two dissimilar arts could grow up side by side.

Very interesting point of view. I've actually seen someone use the knuckle kiss and the throw the fist back into the other person's face. It's a psychological and showboat tactic.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Well... I dont post much however here's my to yuan.

This is not really true. I grew up in the ghetto and sadly due to a bad lawyer I went to prison for a year for protecting the pregnant mother of my child with a crow bar and a box cutter.

99% of the people I knew in the ghettos only put on gloves and did boxing training to the body only. It was kind of like a ghetto past time. . . . . .

It is true about people from Rikers Island. Two of my kung fu brothers were on the emergency response team in Rikers. Besides from seeing JHR in the streets of Brooklyn the practice of it in jail was aslo confirmed my by friends who were COs on Rikers. Maybe it wasn't praticed where you were but it DOES exist in NYC. Did you see guys spit single edge razor blades in between their fingers so they could slice your face and arms where you were. I've seen my stepson from a former marriage who was in prison demonstrate this skill to me.
Phil

[TenTigers]

Like I mentioned before, I have a friend from Rikers who showed me some, it definately is alive and well in NYC. This other guy spoke about Mother Dear, and the kiss thing, and this was way before the article came out, so I suppose he wasn't full of it.(BTW-he did NOT say he met him, just heard about him) I saw one kid not only spit it, but flip it around in his mouth. For the life of me I have no idea how one would even start learning that skill, but I do admit, it definately freaked me out a bit at the time. I suppose it would be a real mess if someone grabbed his face and gave it a good squeeze.

[Ou Ji]

Can't say that I've ever seen it but I spent a good amount of time on the streets of Jersey in the early 70's, have friends that did time and my first MA teacher was from the streets of Brooklyn. I don't recall who or where but I do remember hearing about Mother.

Unfortunately the street life has dulled my memory and a lot of it is vague and it was a long time ago. Seems like another life completely. I did pick up some good stuff from some of those guys. My early streetfighting skills came partially from ex-cons.

[SimonM]

Very interesting point of view. I've actually seen someone use the knuckle kiss and the throw the fist back into the other person's face. It's a psychological and showboat tactic.
Phil

I don't put much stock by showboating.
My Sifu drilled us hard on bread and butter. You are an advanced student? That doesn't mean you stop practicing jabs, that means you practice them twice as much. This eventually lead to me having a rather workmanlike opinion about practical fighting.

However I do recognize that psychological tactics can be important in a fight... I've gotten pretty good at looming menacingly for that very reason.

[TenTigers]

Oui Ji-if you've ever seen guys squaring off in the streets, doing a shuffle and slapping their elbows-looks like an upward elbow strike while slapping with the other hand,you have either seen it, or are watching someone who saw someone, who saw someone...most people have seen that move and try to front. And once they get to bangin, it all goes out the window.
The weird thing is, one of the moves in "creasing" I have also seen in Buk Sing CLF. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, there are many traditional Chinese, Philippino, as well as capoeira techniques in JHR. Jail is like Shaolin. People come in, and skills that they have aquired on the outside get absorbed into the system.

[Ou Ji]

I think the reference to Mother Dear came from a guy I hung with named Joe [edit]. He did his time in NY, manslaughter I think. He never told me and I never asked. May have been Rikers. He was the oldest of 3 brothers and they were all pretty tough fighters. I think all 3 had done some time.

Most likely he just copied what he saw since it pretty much stayed within the black community. He OD'd years ago.

All these guys were older than me and they would always say don't worry about this or that just do this and then show me something. Nothing fancy, just basic brawling. Tips on fighting with a belt and stuff like that. Some improvised weapons.

There was some discussion awhile back about 52 Blocks and when I read the linked article that mentioned Mother it creeped me out. That's when I remembered hearing stuff back in those days.