Is it good to cross train mantis & san da?

[Mika]

I am with phoenixdog on this one. I have trained both the modern way (Sport Sanda) and now recently the traditional way (Chuji and Zhongji Sanda), and I must say the differences are immense.

One thing that always comes up: injuries. Well, no. Look at MMA: if we take the average amateur MMA fighter, he isn't any more injured than your average amateur Sanda fighter.

Get a pair of MMA gloves and a teacher who knows how to apply Mantis with them (the traditional way), and you're on your way.

EDIT: I do think, however, that Mantis can be applied on lei tai or ring or whatever (because it seems phoenixdog may not that think that). But not with gloves.

[phoenixdog]

Without a doubt,any mantis principle can be applied in any fighting venue.In the clinch in western boxing,you can use stick,adhere,lean,etc,just as Jake commented.....but it's difficult to pull an opponent off balance with gloves on.

[Three Harmonies]

Not if you use whole body power. The energy/power does not come from the hand, but rather from the pelvic girdle/waist/kua, so it matter not what the hands are doing.
Cheers
Jake

[MightyB]

Note: this post only applies to the humans that lurk quietly on this board. I know that most of you are superhuman and fight like Jet Li in New Fist of Legend, but there are humans on this board who don't say much and like to contemplate other people's opinions once in awhile.
---

I've been thinking about this thread and the thread of the rooftop video and I've come up with a hypothesis about TCMA, or any traditional art that focuses on self defense.

We have a lot of techniques that could be used regardless of what type of gloves we're wearing, so I don't buy the argument about gloves being the problem. If you du sou properly, you're forearms deflect the incoming punch even if you miss the hook. Foom sou and tu sou can be applied with practice, etc...

So what's really going on? My theory is that two things are constantly being reinforced to a student when they practice defensive martial arts (most TCMA falls into this category). One is conscious, and the other is subconscious. Consciously, we're tought everything from a defensive standpoint, every technique depends on a person doing something to you. Subconsciosly, you're tought that only bad things can happen if you are the aggressive, offensive person. This is reinforced both in forms and applications. What ends up happening is that as MAists, we become to defensive in our mindset.

I've personally felt the result of this type of training in both continuous and full contact fighting. What happened to me is an actual physical restraint on my fighting. It was very hard to move against the opponent in an offensive manner. I was pretty much a fish out of water in the ring. This wasn't how I was before I started MArts, and it's not how I am now, but, at the time, physically and mentally it was very hard to move (in my opinion) because of the constant defensive training and mental conditioning that it's bad to be the offensive fighter that I had undergone.

I, like other people, had to look outside to find my offense. So, like many people, I began to imitate offensive styles that I don't have coaching in like TKD, Thai Boxing, Western Boxing, etc. Over the years I've gotten good at doing this, but it was an inefficient way to learn.

So, here's my challenge to people who want to really put their mark on Mantis or any TCMA: Develop core strategies, philosophies, and techniques that adhere to the principals of mantis that are purely offensive (not defensive, not dependent on somebody doing something to you)-- codify, and ring test those strategies, and pass them on.

(read Bruce Lee for an example of how to do this. Trying to develop an offensive chinese martial art is the true core philosophy of JKD)