Toe to testicle range

[chisauking]

Victor Sez: There are two other guys, however - one of whom is taller than me (he goes about 6"1.5'/ 6'2") and with a longer reach - who are coming along fairly well (and they have some knowledge of boxing/kickboxing moves for me to work against)...


Would be very interesting to see how your long range techniques deals with your
students, especially if they used the same techniques to counter \ bridge you

[Ultimatewingchun]

Good point, but as I've said before...I'm maximizing my chances with the longer range moves at the longer ranges.

Let's put it this way:

If the taller guy with the longer reach was only having to deal with my short range techniques...than he maximizes his chances of keeping me at bay or picking me off as I try to close in.

The idea is to use long range (longer reaching weapons) as a means to create openings and be safe as I come in - at which point I might even have a distinct advantage against the guy with longer arms and reach (assuming I can penetrate close enough that I'm now contacting his elbows or thereabouts)...

since now my shorter arms and the close range strikes can work more efficiently than his long arms.

(From 4 feet a way I'd prefer a weapon that's say 2' foot long....and from one foot away a 1' long weapon is better...right? )

Btw, CSK...I know you're trolling...

but thanks for the opportunity to make the point once again.

But my patience for trolling is limited, so if after this post you still make like you don't get it - then you're on your own.

[chisauking]

Victor sez: Btw, CSK...I know you're trolling

Victor, you have been offering to show us your hardcore sparring with your students for months...Of your own free will. But...every time it's been delayed for one reason or another.

So...when you offered again, I thought it would answer many of your points regarding long range strategy, since pictures = 1000 words.

Any way, if that is trolling, then I'm trolling.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Yes it's been delayed. But then again, about a year ago I posted 5 vids that were on here for months...whereas...you're first vids are where?

[chisauking]

Victor, unlike you, I didn't offered to show my limited ability. Besides, it's not my style to make other people look bad in front of a large audiance LOL

[anerlich]

Victor, unlike you, I didn't offered to show my limited ability.

Your posts have demonstrated that, and also your unattractive personality.

[chisauking]

Anerlick sez: Your posts have demonstrated that, and also your unattractive personality

Why? Is it because I don't toe the line regarding MMA, and I question those that make wing chun far more complicated then need be? Is it because I talk about wing chun principles and concepts on a wing chun forum?

Or....sometimes the 'words of truth' really hurts?

[couch]

Anerlick sez: Your posts have demonstrated that, and also your unattractive personality

Why? Is it because I don't toe the line regarding MMA, and I question those that make wing chun far more complicated then need be? Is it because I talk about wing chun principles and concepts on a wing chun forum?

Or....sometimes the 'words of truth' really hurts?

I KNOW what really hurts: Getting popped in the head while thinking that my straight line can beat that curved line.

Crosstraining and using other ideas for other ranges other than close-range combat is a great idea!

,
Kenton

[Ultimatewingchun]

Look, CSK....

Let's skip the attempts at sarcasm, shall we?

I WILL post new vids this winter. Period. As for crosstraining, yes I believe it's a necessity nowadays - but I still look upon wing chun as my main art.

The sun around which everything else I do revolves; because as I see it, real fighting is not about having a long range move-in-throw-some-stuff-and-and-move-back-out boxing or kickboxing match....and going to the ground for a grappling situation in a real streetfight can be quite risky - especially if you can avoid it. (Or at least avoid following the man you just threw, swept, or otherwise put on the ground).

But If I'm grabbed in a standing clinch, or if someone tries to take me down, or does take me down - then I want to be able to fight him with some real clinch and/or grappling skills of my own...perhaps mixed in with some striking as well.

But primarily...I want to be able to punch, finger strike, palm strike, kick, knee, elbow, or sweep someone from a standup close infight range - as I'm going forward and pressuring him. That's the best place to try and win the fight, imo.

And wing chun (if executed and trained efficiently) is perfectly suited for that.

But getting to that very close range without taking any heavy punches or kicks is key.

And I believe that what I'm doing to work my way into that range is very efficient.

Very efficient - even if my opponent is bigger and with a longer reach. Somewhat more efficient than the wing chun I've seen from the longer range starting point. (Although I have seen, learned, and continue to use lots of closing the distance stuff taught by William Cheung, and to a lessor extent, by Moy Yat).

That's all.

You don't have to agree...that's not my concern.

So if you want to continue talking principles, theory, technique, strategy - fine. Let's talk. (And hopefully not simply repeating the same things over and over again - even though I may have already gave an answer to your question or comment).

But if you want to just hurl insults or trolling remarks - then count me out. I've got better things to do.

[anerlich]

Is it because I don't toe the line regarding MMA, and I question those that make wing chun far more complicated then need be? Is it because I talk about wing chun principles and concepts on a wing chun forum?

No, it's because you're sarcastic and ill-mannered, and lack the charisma and intelligence to get away with it.

Or....sometimes the 'words of truth' really hurts?

Precious little of that in what you've written.

[chisauking]

Victor: before it gets too emotional, let me start by saying sometimes what I try to convey in the written word gets taken out of context since my writting ability and intellect isn't very high. To be truthful, anyone can argue for or against any subject or thing just as well, so there's seldom a definate right or wrong in life anyway.

For many wing chun practitioners in the world, they like to add many, many arts into their repetoire of techniques in order to face 1 million different permutations of possibilities -- for example, what happens if some one gets me into a head lock, taken to the ground, eye jabbed, arm barred, leg locked, etc., etc.

For me, I believe in the old Chinese saying: prevention is better than cure. Meaning that I concentrate on my core wing chun techniques so well that I'm not forced into a compromising position in the first place, so I don't have to learn additional skills to deal with multiple ranges of fighting. For example, I could take another 5-years learning BJJ so that I could fight on the ground should I get taken there, or, as I've chosen to do, dedicate more time and effort into my wing chun to improve my skills in order to stop the rot even before it starts. To me, this makes more sense since letting your opponent past your by-jung would mean you having to face overwelming number of problems. Take the analogy of damp-proofing your walls. If you don't damp proof your walls, water and mositure would get in,causing a range of multiple problems. However, to stop the multiple ranges of problems occuring in the first place, you only needed to concentrate on one thing and one thing only: damp proof your walls. I truly believe that the best way to safeguard yourself from multiple permutations of problems is to learn your wing chun skills well in order to prevent the problems occuring first. If you choose to learn how to repair problems after they have occured, then you are faced with a never ending range of problems since one problem infects another ( once your walls are damp, it will infect the plasterboard behind, which will in turn infect your wall paper, which will cause a nasty stall smell in your living room, etc. etc.)

Another good analogy is the choice between learning all the fighting styles in the world so that you can counteract all those styles, or you can simply learn the very limited possible angles of attacks which would enable you to contend with any fighting style in the world, since all styles have to attack within those universal angles, which are limited (remember Lee -- your hero -- one good punch is better than 1000 lousy ones?)

Which way you choose is up to you. I have chosen the wing chun way, but if others feel the need to append BJJ, catch wrestling, TKD, western boxing, thai boxing, savate, etc. etc, to their wing chun, then it's all good for them.

Further more, is it possible to adhere to wing chun's basic principles whilst integrating many different styles into wing chun? I personally think not.

Lastly: as I have said before, I respect all the individuals that's been in wing chun for so long.....but don't expect me to agree with every thing you say. I personally think you take things far too seriously on a medium that's basically for a good natter and a bit of fun

[Ultimatewingchun]

CSK:

I've heard the rationale you give for only wanting to spend your time doing wing chun many times before. Don't let them past your by-jong and everything will be just fine. Don't let someone grab you in a headlock, or whatever.

And whatever could be many different things.

And you say that I take all of this too seriously. But perhaps what you fail to understand is where I live: Brooklyn, New York...(and have lived here my whole life). And Brooklyn, if it were a separate city - would be the 4th largest city in the United States. But Brooklyn is only one of 5 boroughs that make up New York City.

And 10 million people live in this city. And virtually anything can (and does) happen here all the time.

I know how easy it could be to be grabbed when your back is turned...or from the side...or punched, kicked, headlocked, attacked by multiple opponents, have weapons like knives pulled on you, or bottles, or baseball bats, or even guns.

And I have a pretty good inkling of just how many people walking around this town may have trained in boxing, wrestling, karate, kung fu, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, etc.

Answer: Many.

At one point when my school was located on Broadway, between Walker and White Streets, in lower Manhattan, for example...a street no more than maybe 60-70 yards long...and I was on that block for about 12 years or more...

at one point, including my school - there were 4 different martial art schools on the block.

On one city block!!!

And besides...you don't have to live in NYC to understand what I'm getting at.

Which doesn't even address another point...no matter where you live...even the best of wing chun people might find themselves on the floor in the middle of a fight. Didn't it happen to William Cheung in Germany, back in 1986?

Wasn't Boztepe, another name in wing chun...on the floor with him?

Wasn't Boztepe in a headlock at one point?

Do you really want to put all your eggs in the basket that says that wing chun alone will always stop a really good wrestler, sambo, or BJJ guy from taking you down?

Maybe you don't care. Maybe you think the odds of you ever having to fight a tall real good boxer type are very slim. And maybe where you live they are. I dont' know. So maybe you'll never have to find out if you could close on him without eating a serious left hook or a rear cross to the face or head.

[sihing]

CSK:

I've heard the rationale you give for only wanting to spend your time doing wing chun many times before. Don't let them past your by-jong and everything will be just fine. Don't let someone grab you in a headlock, or whatever.

And whatever could be many different things.

And you say that I take all of this too seriously. But perhaps what you fail to understand is where I live: Brooklyn, New York...(and have lived here my whole life). And Brooklyn, if it were a separate city - would be the 4th largest city in the United States. But Brooklyn is only one of 5 boroughs that make up New York City.

And 10 million people live in this city. And virtually anything can (and does) happen here all the time.

I know how easy it could be to be grabbed when your back is turned...or from the side...or punched, kicked, headlocked, attacked by multiple opponents, have weapons like knives pulled on you, or bottles, or baseball bats, or even guns.

And I have a pretty good inkling of just how many people walking around this town may have trained in boxing, wrestling, karate, kung fu, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, etc.

At one point when my school was located on Broadway, between Walker and White Streets, in lower Manhattan, for example...a street no more than maybe 60-70 yards long...and I was on that block for about 12 years or more...

at one point, including my school - there were 4 different martial art schools on the block.

On one city block!!!

And besides...you don't have to live in NYC to understand what I'm getting at.

Which doesn't even address another point...no matter where you live...even the best of wing chun people might find themselves on the floor in the middle of a fight. Didn't it happen to William Cheung in Germany, back in 1986?

Wasn't Boztepe, anothe rname in wing chun...on the floor with him.

Wasn't Boztepe in a headlock at one point.

Do you really want to put all your eggs in the basket that says that wing chun alone will always stop a really good wrestler, sambo, or BJJ guy from taking you down?

Maybe you don't care. Maybe you think the odds of you ever having to fight a tall real good boxer type are very slim. And maybe they are. So maybe you'll never have to find out if you could close on him without eating a serious left hook or a rear cross to the face or head.

First of all, all the attacks you mentioned are addressed in WC. Like chisauking mentioned, you should look at angles and ranges of attacks not specific techniques against, when wondering if your tools are competent enough to deal with them all.

I think anyone that lives in a half decently sized city, deals with the same sh!t that New York has to offer, plus most people looking to do serious harm use lethal weapons, like knives or guns, so whatta gonna do if a guy has a knife to your throat and asks for your wallet? I would give it too him, as trying to get out of it would be too risky. The only time I would try that would be if I knew my life or someone elses life was in definite danger.

Portray yourself as weak or with Ego and you will be a target, portray yourself with real self confidence and you will be less of a Target.

Against the taller skilled boxer, why try to go straight in to the head anyways? Go for the lower limbs first to bring them down a notch then if needed go for the upper gate. Anyone much taller than yourself should be attacked low first as it is more difficult for them to counter and easier for us to attack. WC has a strategy & delivery system for this and also for countering any grappling attack intiated, as long as you are resisting along the way. Some moves are highly unlikely to escape from once fully applied to you.


Good posts Chisauking

James

[chisauking]

Victor sez: Which doesn't even address another point...no matter where you live...even the best of wing chun people might find themselves on the floor in the middle of a fight. Didn't it happen to William Cheung in Germany, back in 1986?

Wasn't Boztepe, another name in wing chun...on the floor with him?

Wasn't Boztepe in a headlock at one point?

I shall quickly address your points for the last time. I will mention this incident NO more on this forum.

1) No matter who you are, if people want to ambush you and they are well prepared -- like one year beforehand -- then there is nothing in this world that would stop them

2) Time stands still for no man. Try fighting a youthful Kan Wah Chit or Gary Lam and you will know they are not the same 40 +

3) No one -- and I mean no one -- would wear a pair of Chinese slippers for fighting on a wooden floor if they had a choice.

4) Was old willy beaten up badly? Was he taken to hospital? Did he sustain any injuries? NO. Then I guess he did not do too badly then, even if it ended on the floor.

Victor, please show some respect to your old sifu. In respect of all the information you have leading up to the incident, why do you constantly bring this very sad incident up again and again just so that you can prove your point regarding ground fighting?

If this incident is the main motivator for your interest in wrestling, then I seriously urge you to reconsider your thinking.

In respect of sifu Cheung, I will not respond to any stupid comments on the matter any further

[Ultimatewingchun]

So before you start thinking that I'm getting all emotional, CSK...let me start by saying that I'm actually laughing to myself right now.

Laughing because I have to assume that you've been around this forum long enough to know what I'm about to say:

One of the guys who surrounded William Cheung in Germany in 1986 actually came into my class here in NYC 10 years later looking for trouble. Long story short: at the end of the day I was arrested for assault and had to get my lawyer and appear in court about 4-5 times before the charges were finally dropped - since this guy went to the hospital due to his foolishness. (No serious injuries).

I'm laughing because you're now using the same points I've made numerous times on this forum (and elsewhere) about what really happened in Germany - against me, of all people!!!

William Cheung knows I respect him - and he's still my sifu.

But once again you've demonstrated that you're going to be all over the map on the issues addressed on this thread - instead of what the real issues are.

I talk to you about real life street situations and how easy it is for things to go much differently than what you may have trained for - something that could happen even to the best of wing chun fighters....

and you come back with some jive about me being disrespectful to my sifu!!!

You gotta love it! You are a character.