More power

[r4cy]

This week I had some sparring time with a friend of mine who practices karate. I forgot to mention that he weighs over 200 punds.While we engaged I could deflect his punches and kicks and hit him back many times doing this simultanously. I train to develop power in my strikes almost everyday, but still it seemed that when I landed my strikes I could not hurt him nor mak him move. Obviously in a situation like this I can't strike to sensitive areas because it could exceed the damage we are willing to receive when we are just practicing. Can anybody give some advice in how to develop power to move or make a 200 and over pound guy feel a strike to the chest or stomach?

[couch]

Well the first thing I'd do if a 200lb guy was attacking my a55, is to take out his knees...but I presume that you want to keep sparring with this guy!

There are many components to power. Here's a few things I suggest you can train and then I'll mention some semantics. These are just things that *I* think are good. Like anything try them out for a while, see what they do for you. Moreover...think about what they do more than you practise them. Thinking good.

1. Candle punch: this achieves a whipping power. What you want to do is fire out centre punches one at a time with the bottom two knuckles faced at the flame when fully extended. When you do this punch, make your whole arm loose, and like a whip (and with good form), have the punch come out with your fist loose. Tighten up at the last second at full extension. If done properly, the air will escape out between your knuckles and be forced out and blow the candle out. Obviously, keep moving back as this gets easier. This helps with the whipping power.

2. Sand Bag: Hold a loose, formed fist 1-2 inches from a sand bag. Strike the sand bag with the bottom two knuckles while clenching your fist and immediately relax. Hold the next hand in the same position. Rinse, repeat. This will teach you to strike hard with good form and relax after. Relaxing after each motion is key and will help keep you supple and able to read energies.

3. Spring Jong/Dummy: Place your hand on the Jong(changing the positions as you see fit) with the arm somewhat bent and relaxed. Then strike the jong with this precontacted hand, again - relaxing right after. With Jongs that are mounted with two 1x4's going through them...this works well as the Jong should spring away from you. This teaches Ging, or relaxed (penetrating) striking energy.

These three things are great for developing punching power. If only I did them more often.

Also about generating power:
Where is the hit going? If the hit is to the face and there is little to no gear, use an open palm. When striking his face, don't forget to push along his centreline and this can disrupt the force.

What else is hitting him? Are you uprooting him with a Pak Sao to his elbow/wrist/shoulder/etc? If you especially can push that elbow into his centreline, then this will disrupt power. Your stance is very important. When you strike, also sink your stance and get your power from the ground like a pike or lance with one end in the ground and the other end de-horsing someone.

One last thing: if you can get close enough to have your knee touch his, you can use this to disrupt his power and uproot him. Chi Gerk is good for setting this stuff up. If you are knee to knee, sink and push forward with your back leg (while striking if you like!). The step adds power to any punch as well as the push on the opponents knee is like another contact point in the battle.

Try it, lemme know how it goes.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[r4cy]

Awesome advice. I will definetly try this out. If anybody else have more advice it'll be most welcome. Keep em coming.

[Matrix]

r4cy,
While the exercises that Kenton has mentioned are fine, I don't think they completely address your problem. You mentioned that you're already training everyday to develop power in your strikes. Just what are you doing??

What comes to mind for me , as I read your post, is that you need to develop the timing of striking with the entire body. It's not your upper body alone that needs the work, it's your legs, body and arms in coordination. Timing is everything. If your just hitting with your arms, then your not hitting with all of your potential power, IMO.
Also, how far in are you stepping when you strike? If it's power you want you need to think of hitting THROUGH the target, not at it.

Keep in my, this is just my opinion.

[Jeff Bussey]

Hey r4cy,
I'm gonna say something that a lot of people may not like to hear, but honestly, I would concentrate on your chi sau.
And I'm serious about that.
One of the things I've gained from chi sau is to move my whole body together, and this will knock back a guy 200lbs.
I agree with Bill, you need to work on your legs, it sounds like they may not be connected to your upper body. Proper chi sau will help correct that.
At first, just practice moving your opponent from one end of the room to the other while doing chi sau and not loosing your structure, like leaning or over extending your arms. When you have the correct timing, and structure, it's fairly easy to move someone in chi sau.
Now once you've got that, then try those concepts in sparring.

Personally, while I think sparring is beneficial, I think people need to get a good foundation of their wing chun first. Otherwise you can create more problems for yourself (speaking in general not directly to you)

Mind you I'm still a believer that you should train the form first and then the applications instead of the other way around but hey, that's another thread, and a whole bunch of arguments

J

[couch]

r4cy,
While the exercises that Kenton has mentioned are fine, I don't think they completely address your problem. You mentioned that you're already training everyday to develop power in your strikes. Just what are you doing??

What comes to mind for me , as I read your post, is that you need to develop the timing of striking with the entire body. It's not your upper body alone that needs the work, it's your legs, body and arms in coordination. Timing is everything. If your just hitting with your arms, then your not hitting with all of your potential power, IMO.
Also, how far in are you stepping when you strike? If it's power you want you need to think of hitting THROUGH the target, not at it.

Keep in my, this is just my opinion.

You and Jeff have great advice as well!

I mentioned this in my post...but could have done a better job in explaining.

LOL

Connecting the upper body and the lower body is key and takes time and practise.

You guys rock. Word.

[CFT]

Personally, while I think sparring is beneficial, I think people need to get a good foundation of their wing chun first. Otherwise you can create more problems for yourself (speaking in general not directly to you)

Jeff, I like what you wrote, but isn't this model of learning a bit linear? There's nothing wrong per se, but supervised sparring should minimise bad habits; I agree it can be all to easy to pick up bad habits.

[AndrewS]

Medicine ball throws against a wall or with a partner- use a ball light enough to move quickly, not so heavy that it slows you down- sounds like a 4-6lb ball would be right for you. A partner can throw you the ball or you can bounce it off the wall so it loads you- partner is better 'cos there are some very hip drills you can cobble together.

Catch and throw the ball using the double piercing hand structure from Chum Kiu- aka use your body not your arms- throw and catch the ball from each stance, from each stance with a step, from each stance with a turn, from each stance with step and turn, etc.

Keep sets under 20 reps total, rest at 3-4 minutes between rounds, doing some active recovery (i.e. some nice soft reps of some mechanic), don't go over 5 sets or so, or more than 2-3x a week for your purposes.

See how you feel in a month.

Andrew

[Lindley]

R4CY,

Good points were mentioned, but the key is getting your opponent off balance and breaking his structure. If you go force vs force, you will not win. This is why the point about more Chi Sao is very valid. In your Chi Sao play, use more forward energy, broken rythem, and try to feel you are using your body structure to support your techniques. For example, try playing your Siu Nim Tao and focusing on your heels. This creates a sensation of "feeling" your horse.
When you stop his blows, try to put snap into your pak sao or use bil sao with a lot of spring energy. Try using quan sao. Are you posing in your chi sao (and in your sparring with him)?

You are correct in saying that in a friendly sparring match you cannot strike the sensitive parts of his body. However, you must use the lop, and penetrating movements to "shock" him and then you will disrupt his balance. It is with this good timing you will move his 200 pounds with ease...

One important thing to note is that fighting is serious. If he were threatening your life this would be different. Thus, if you want to train your Chun for "sport", then you must have good conditioning, strike to score, and do not be afraid to inflict techniques that "send him a message" - this would include power strikes to the chest and shoulder.

Good luck with your Kung Fu....

[Jeff Bussey]

Jeff, I like what you wrote, but isn't this model of learning a bit linear? There's nothing wrong per se, but supervised sparring should minimise bad habits; I agree it can be all to easy to pick up bad habits.

Hey Chee,
Linear is a straight line, and we're learning wing chun so, they go hand in hand
I really don't see linear as a bad thing, being linear is still being continuous it's just in an "orderly" way.

There's no doubt that people can and have worked out bad habits while sparring. I personally think that they're the minority. Sparring is so fast, and it's always easier to isolate concepts in a slower environment.

Kinda like if you're sifu tells you to slow down while doing chi sau.

J

[Hendrik]

. Can anybody give some advice in how to develop power to move or make a 200 and over pound guy ?

It is certainly not an advice but an opinion for you to think about.


Thus, I have heard,

develop the 6 directional force vectors ability.

seperate the rope which is made from 6 trends of string, and manage the string, to manage the rope...

[Jeff Bussey]

Kenton
Thanks for the compliment!
I don't know if I rock, probably more like I pebble

J

[r4cy]

I will try all what has been said with some time. I think all advice given here is good and has a point. I will work on positioning to take out his balance. He being so big makes him slow as well. I'll practice this for quicker guys as well don't get me wrong. I think bill sao could be good to to open his lower gates as well. I thought of this later on while analizing the combat.

[Matrix]

I mentioned this in my post...but could have done a better job in explaining. .

Maybe I should have done a better job in reading.

Connecting the upper body and the lower body is key and takes time and practise.

Kenton, The time and practice element cannot be over-emphasized. It's all about refining the skills and that cannot be cooked up in a microwave.

[Matrix]

AndrewS, Great advice on developing the core strength that is needed. Some nice tips. Thanks.

Good points were mentioned, but the key is getting your opponent off balance and breaking his structure. If you go force vs force, you will not win.

Lindley, I agree with what you're saying. I just think that you need to have your own timing and balance before you can attempt to take someone else's.
What you're saying is a little later in the progression, IMO, but great advice none the less. Thanks for adding those insights.