who's the best wing chun guy

[anerlich]

Another TWC practitioner under Cheung, his name is Joe (can't spell his last name), won the heavyweight division for that same year also.

Joe Moahengi. Now spends most of his time in Tonga.

Important note: a lot has changed in the world of competitive martial arts since 1982. What cut it then could get you killed today.

Wow. Really?

The 1982 tournament basically had very thin gloves like bag mitts, no protection for either party. Basically only shots to the eyes, throat and groin were disallowed, there were lots of elbows to the kidneys, back of the neck, etc. A Xingyi training bud of mine at the time competed and nearly lost an eye, as did a couple of other competitors. Quite a few people ended up going to hospital.

Reportedly the tournament was not held again as the number and severity of injuries meant no one was prepared to sponsor it again.

And yes, Rick did win his final fight with a broken hand.

Not a modern pro MMA event perhaps, but in many ways just as if not more dangerous.

Rick Spain also had over 100 amateur and 37 pro kickboxing matches. And he's moved with the times, now a purple belt in BJJ, with students who have succeeded in local MMA and state and national BJJ competition.

Still cutting it today, wouldn't you agree?

[Mortal1]

Great old school pic! Time goes so fast it's scary.

[Chum Kil]

Where did Carlan Stewart and Bob Shores fit into this? Carlan was good friends with Blaine and Bob. Bob held seminar's for Sifu Cheung. This was all back in the early 80's. Carlan was also Pres or vice-pres of the WWCKFA.

[shammy]

Funny how none of you "seniors" have much to say about Sifu Dana Wong, who taught for GM for over 10 years at the World Headquarters. He did instructor training in Australia with GM on Friday nights, the only day off he had from teaching the classes there, and he had a daily private with GM from 1988 to 1990 as well. He told me he doesn't read the Wing Chun forums because there's a lot of ego there, and stuff that gets said that isn't always true or accurate. I'm not saying that what some have said here on this thread isn't accurate, just that some of it may not be said with all the facts being presented. Seems to me some egos may be wanting to get massaged here, at the expense of holes that would make it convenient for people to do so. The internet's a funny place; it can be a great place for information and exchange, like on this forum and others but it can be a place that also allows for a lot of misinformation and misrepresentations too. Although Sifu Wong doesn't visit these forums, and doesn't say much about his own skills and abilities, anyone who's met and trained with him would know that he has more than what some claim. Just thought I'd put that in, seeing how he doesn't spend time reading these things. I trained with him for about five years in Australia, and think that he's not getting some of the credit he deserves for all the time he put into the WWCKFA. If any of you knew him personally, you know he wouldn't have left it if it wasn't for a good and ethical reason. And just because he calls his school the Qian Li Dao academy now doesn't mean he doesn't still teach TWC.

[anerlich]

Just thought I'd put that in, seeing how he doesn't spend time reading these things. I trained with him for about five years in Australia, and think that he's not getting some of the credit he deserves for all the time he put into the WWCKFA.

No one mentioned Dana, but no one dissed him either. As you say, he's a quiet achiever who did a lot for the WWCKFA in Australia (same as people like Marty Goldberg, among others, did in the US).

If any of you knew him personally, you know he wouldn't have left it if it wasn't for a good and ethical reason. And just because he calls his school the Qian Li Dao academy now doesn't mean he doesn't still teach TWC.

Quite a few other people have parted company with GM Cheung and the WWCKFA. I know three instructors personally in that boat with Dana, including Rick Spain, who was with GM Cheung for 22 years, and I know EXACTLY what happened in Rick's situation, as I was physically present at the time when the split occurred. No sane person would have continued the association in that situation.

I don't think I'm treading on anyone's toes here when I say GM Cheung's unlikely to win any awards for employee relations anytime soon. A great WC man and martial artist, but not the easiest guy to work for.

Rick also teaches TWC, though after rebranding it Hung Suen Wing Chun.

Rick Spain and his most senior student Alf del-Brocco, kept in contact with Dana after the split and AFAIK are still on good terms.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Met Carlan Steward when I tested for my Gold Sash in October, 1990 in Denver, Colorado...Carlan was already a Gold Sash instructor - but dropped out of the association the following year over a dispute with William Cheung concerning some financial matters regarding a new school that Carlan was opening...and if I'm not mistaken - the school was in San Diego at the time. Was actually considering mentioning him when I made the list - but don't really know enough about him and and don't remember seeing him do very much that weekend - and in fact I sparred with one of his students during my test (this guy was also testing for the Gold Sash)...but I wasn't very impressed with this guy at all.

Don't really know how good Carlan really is or was - perhaps I should have included him...(I know Blaine Collins had some good things to say about him).

Seemed like a good guy.

I don't think Bob Shores was ever an instructor...wasn't he a chiropractor? I believe I met him that weekend also.

[russellsherry]

re dana wong, sifu dana ran chinatown club for over ten years , dana has some of the best knowledge, in twc, he welcomed me warlmy when he knew i was a
senor at my other school dana is a good guy and very openmined in regard to wing chun we remain tight friends peace russellsherry

[Ultimatewingchun]

I met Dana when I first met Willliam Cheung in August, 1983 in Boston...don't think he had ever done any wing chun before at that time - but it was him who arranged for William Cheung to come and do a weekend seminar at a college. In fact, I played a game of chess with William Cheung in Dana's apartment after the Saturday seminar.

Spoke to him a few times through the years after he went to live in Australia...I omitted him from the list not because he had a falling out with William Cheung and left the association - there are a number of people on that list who left William Cheung...I omitted his name because I know enough about him to come to the conclusion that he was not a particularly skilled fighter...that's not who he really was. He knew the system very well - but was not really a fighter.

Very nice guy, though...just about everybody I know liked him. And I wish him well.

No offense intended. Dana was always very friendly toward me.

................

And I can second what Anerlich (Andrew Nerlich) has said about Rick Spain. From what I've heard through the years - he is probably one of the very best of all of William Cheung's students. Had a chance to meet him when he came to the U.S. to do a seminar back in 1997 (1998?)...he had already left the association...there was a lot of politics going on, and crazy Joe Grepo - who was organizing the seminar here in the U.S. after he also left the association - wanted me to go...but I didn't.

I was waaaaaay too involved with William Cheung and Association matters at that time to even consider it.

.....................

You know...the more I think about this...the more I'm coming to the conclusion that I may have left too many names off the list....

[Phil Redmond]

I mentioned Dana at least twice in my posts on this thread. I've met Dana and have exchanged friendly emails with him since he left the association. I also was invited to go to Melbourne and teach along with Dana. It would have been fun for both of us. I remember talking to him when he first got there and him telling me how hard he was working. There was no malice against Dana intended. He's a really nice guy.
Phil

[Chum Kil]

Thanks for the reply Sifu Parlati. Sifu Steward was my instructor from 96-99 back in CA. He told me about Sifu Collins being one of Sifu Cheung's early students here in the US back in the early 80's and how he and Sifu Collin's attended alot of Sifu Cheung's seminar's in the US. When I moved to UT I talked to Sifu Shores on the phone and got some video's of the early seminar's 83 up in Oregon at Sifu Shores school. I remember talking to Joe Greco on the phone back when I was training with Sifu Steward. The guy had alot of stories to tell, that' for sure, LOL

[kravi]

I know EXACTLY what happened in Rick's situation, as I was physically present at the time when the split occurred. No sane person would have continued the association in that situation.

I'm really curious to know what happened - any chance of you telling what happened from your viewpoint? (or is it a personal story best reserved to be heard from the horses mouth.. ie Sifu RS?)

cheers,

[Phil Redmond]

That photo was taken in November, 1984...and I'm the good looking guy that Phil Redmond rushed to stand directly in front of so that he could be shown standing next to Blaine... (You only see my face, partial chest, and left arm in the photo.....Da_n that Redmond guy!) )

Good memory and you're too funny.

Not to worry: we all know who was teaching most of the good stuff in the classes in those days. )

Thanks for the compliment.

(When Blaine came to town he stayed with me! ) )

Yeah, you lived in a "safer" neighborhood.

Ha! Ha! (Finally gotcha, Phil... )

Touché

Phil

[anerlich]

I'm really curious to know what happened - any chance of you telling what happened from your viewpoint?

PM me with some detail about yourself and I'll consider it. It's certainly not a story for public airing. I mention it only because certain rumours emerged about it which I know to be untrue, and if they surface again people should know I can refute them as an eyewitness. It's a typical, rather than unusual, story.

there was a lot of politics going on, and crazy Joe Grepo - who was organizing the seminar here in the U.S. after he also left the association - wanted me to go...but I didn't

Probably a wise choice on your part, Victor - I don't think the GM would have been all that pleased if you went and he found out.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun
(Not to worry: we all know who was teaching most of the good stuff in the classes in those days. )



Thanks for the compliment. (Phil Redmond)


***OH YEAH...I must have been talking about you.



...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun
(When Blaine came to town he stayed with me! )


Yeah, you lived in a "safer" neighborhood. (Phil Redmond)


***OH YEAH....Blaine Collins would have been afraid to stay at St. Felix Place....


LOL ON BOTH COUNTS!

[fiamacho]

Hello Everyone,

I find a lot of the talk in this thread about who is the "best Wing Chun Guy" quite fascinating as there is a most definite bias towards the U.S based Instructors.

A lot of you are probably not aware that BEFORE Grand Master Cheung started his first class in Corrs Lane Melbourne, he had actually opened his very school here in Auckland New Zealand.

He ran it for a little while and then he moved to Melbourne, this all happened in the mid to late Seventies. G.M was back and forth between Aussie and New Zealand and in the process Sifu Joe Moahengi had also relocated to Australia so that he could learn privately under G.M

G.M then left the Auckland Club in the hands of Sifu Simon Wan, who was a Modiifed Instructor from Hong Kong, the funny thing was that here we had a Modified Instructor and all of the students were using the Traditional Footwork.

So in terms of true seniority there are students like Joe Moahengi, Marko Matich, Wayne Parks and the Fisher brothers who were training in the Art well before Grand Master Cheung designed the current grading structure. These guys pre-date any of their U.S peers by a few years I have trained under Sifu Joe Moahengi and Wayne Parks and there is a far more combative nature to their Wing Chun then what I have seen Internationally.

In actual reality if I was to name the "best Wing Chun guy" in terms of nothing but pure combative ability and not on "business sense", with no bias whatsoever and in no particular order, then they would have to be ...

Marko Matich
Joe Maohengi
Rick Spain
Wayne Parks
Fisher Brothers

... REST OF THE WORLD !!!

All of G.M early teaching was purely combative, what to do in a fight, how to destroy streetfighters, Thai Boxers, Kick Boxers etc. Grand Master Cheung did not care, it was all about "kicking their asses". Now the Art has become very commercial with many people acheiving Sifu Level after 18 months, now this is nothing but a joke.

With the exception of Joe and Rick a lot of you would not of even heard of the other gentlemen in the list I have provided, because quite frankly you are all too young in the Art to know.

I have also seen Sifu Joe Moahengi in action as we used to do a lot of Security work together, and his Applied Wing Chun is just brilliant, nothing but the Art not a "little bit of this and a little bit of that". Marko and Wayne were equally devastating and as for Rick well he too was also truly amazing.

Someone on this forum I believe from the Canadian Wing Chun school alluded to the 1982 Hong Kong Invitational Tournament, I have been trying to find the link so if you can post it up I would like to see Joe and Rick's fights at that Tournament.

I thought I would clear up one or two things this post was not meant to be offensive, if it is taken that way then I apologise.