Swaztika

[omarthefish]

"I'm not so interested in the goals as in what actually were the results." (omarthefish)


***SO BY THAT LOGIC...since so much of Jesus Christ's teachings were polluted by various "alleged" religious Christians....therefore Jesus was no good? And the same for the prophet Mohammad...? Because a maniac like Osama Bin Laden has perverted the true teaching of Mohammad (and Islam)...we should blame Mohammad?

No. I can point to endless lists of the good that those traditions have done, the saints, the everyday people and then you can find bad examples as well. With Blavatski it's pretty much all been poisoned fruit. The Thule society is not the exception to the rule. It's the rule.

And needless to say, being the believer in UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD that she was....she also quotes from the teachings of Jesus Christ, from Buddha, from Krishna, from Lao Tsu, from Plato, and countless other great teachers down through history.

Yes. That's why she's considered a heretic.

In this exerpt about the nature of the ABSOLUTE (GOD)...she refers admiringly to the works of the JEWISH KABALA ....(oh yeah...she was an anti-Semite. LOL.)

I didn't say she was an anti-semite. I said that her work laid out the framework for what was to come later. I repeat:

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

It is truly tragic the kind of damage her kind of irresponsable nonesense can cause in the world. She is a brilliant example of why the rules are so strict on who is or is not qualified to study kabala.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"It is truly tragic the kind of damage her kind of irresponsable nonesense can cause in the world." (omerthefish)


***NO POINT IN GOING ON with this conversation....you clearly either have no clue about the TRUTH inherent in her writings and teachings or you have some hidden agenda of your own that must include trying to belittle one of the modern era's most brilliant writers.


Either way: It's you who is pedaling nonsense.

Later.

[jethro]

"It is truly tragic the kind of damage her kind of irresponsable nonesense can cause in the world." (omerthefish)


***NO POINT IN GOING ON with this conversation....you clearly either have no clue about the TRUTH inherent in her writings and teachings or you have some hidden agenda of your own that must include trying to belittle one of the modern era's most brilliant writers.


Either way: It's you who is pedaling nonsense.

Later.

I don't see anyone arguing with whether or not she was brilliant, but the destruction that came of her writings will always be recognized whether people like you decide to acknowledge it or not.

[omarthefish]

When omarthefish talks of her as being a heretic because she knew and understood and EXPOUNDED UPON the connections between all the great religions - the he tips his hand!!!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=heretic

I'm pretty sure I used the term correctly and accurately. Did Blavatsky have the support of the Roman Catholic church? Does any religious movement that's not based on her writings support here?

....And the fact that she understood the real history of civiliations like Atlantis and Lemuria before that....

The "real" history?

How can you understand the real history of a bunch of made up legends? Go ahead, expond upon the 7 races. Tell the crowd the "real" history of the world. lol. Tell us about their superpowers.

***NO POINT IN GOING ON with this conversation....you clearly either have no clue about the TRUTH inherent in her writings and teachings or you have some hidden agenda of your own that must include trying to belittle one of the modern era's most brilliant writers.

What is it about you nutcases that see conspiracies everywhere? My agenda is right out in front. I have been completely honest about it. Maybe you need bold print. I think Blavatski was a nut and needs to be discredited wherever she is talked about because her teachings are dangerous. It's not a hidden agenda. It's blatant. I'm not embarrased by it. It's the occultists that always need to work in the shadows and who are compelled to encode everything in secret signs and symbols. That makes it more easier to hide the truth about where the teachings lead. In contrast, a legitimate esoteric tradition leads you to the same place it advertises. As you dig deeper, you still find all sorts of hidden meanings and secret messages but they only reinforce what was presented on the exoteric level.

[Ultimatewingchun]

""With Blavatski it's pretty much all been poisoned fruit. The Thule society is not the exception to the rule. It's the rule." (omarthefish)


***BULL.

You can't blame Blavatsky for the Thule society, or for Hitler, or the Nazi's...or anything else. And the good that has been done is reflected in countless lodges, societies, and organizations around the world for over 130 years now dedicated to the 3 OBJECTIVES of the Theosophical Movement...whose accomplishments include the liberation of the Indians from England's rule - a direct result of the Theosophical movement.

And the NEW AGE movements in the West - including the GREEN MOVEMENT...as in the initial movement to oppose things like Global Warming...and the civil rights movement in the 1960s...

and the OCCULT opposition to Hitler lead by Rudolf Steiner....(Who's Rudolf Steiner, you ask? The man Hitler feared the most because Steiner's astral sight saw evrything Hitler was up to even when plans were being made behind closed doors)...

What does this all mean?

Quite simply, more than anything else Theosophy is about occult (or hidden forces) that drive civilizations spiritually on planes of being that omar and the boys cleary don't understand or want to understand.

SO BLAMING BLAVATSKY FOR THOSE WHO TWISTED HER TEACHINGS IS ABSURD.

And those who blame her are either ignorant of the facts or they have some other agenda that her writings must obviously be opposed to.

When omarthefish talks of her as being a heretic because she knew and understood and EXPOUNDED UPON the connections between all the great religions - then he tips his hand!!!

He says that she's a heretic. Heretic in whose eyes? The Catholic Church? So what!!!
The Catholic Church lost it's way centuries ago.

And the fact that she understood the real history of civiliations like Atlantis and Lemuria before that (the same with Plato, btw)..doesn't mean she made anything up...and doesn't mean that she preached any kind of rascism.

But I see where all of this is going - and there's always the problem of "casting your pearls before swine" when dealing with occult truths about history and about real spiritual advancement....so I'm finished with this thread.

You guys are on your own. I came on here to defend Blavatsky's good name and perhaps to throw some light on a dark subject: Nazism.

[omarthefish]

How'd you do that?

Is that part of your occult practice? You moved the post I quoted to AFTER my post....waitasec. That makes ME the occultist. I quoted you before you had even said it!

Or....you deleted the post, edited it and reposted it after I posted mine.

Take a look, my post #79 is in response to your post #80.

Looks like you deleted your post as the part where you said:

***NO POINT IN GOING ON with this conversation....you clearly either have no clue about the TRUTH inherent in her writings and teachings or you have some hidden agenda of your own that must include trying to belittle one of the modern era's most brilliant writers.

is now gone.

At least you can still see this part up there:

***NO POINT IN GOING ON with this conversation....you clearly either have no clue about the TRUTH inherent in her writings and teachings or you have some hidden agenda of your own that must include trying to belittle one of the modern era's most brilliant writers.

that I quoted BEFORE you put up your current post.

Why didn't you just edit the original post? Why go through the trouble of cut and pasting it into a new post and mess up the continuity of the thread? Why get all sneaky like that?

[Ultimatewingchun]

I was in the middle of amending my post somewhat (adding some points) when I realized that you had already responded to the first draft (you must have come on as I was writing)...so I deleted and reposted.

In any event: I'm done with this thread.

[omarthefish]

alrighty then.

[FuXnDajenariht]

oy vey....


well the theosophists i've seen and talked to were nice and intelligent people. thats all i can go by. i wouldn't call myself one but i've read up enough about it, as i have about eastern religion too, to have my own opinion that it has sumthin worthwhile apart from all the fantastical things that are claimed. i don't know where all this evil cult stuff is about but ive visited some boards from different lodges and they seem like rational sane people to me, just searching for sum answers. just like any buddhist or hindu or daoist. all these things can be distorted by the wrong person, but from what i understand the spiritual path is a personal thing. its not possible for sumone to hold your hand and everyone is responsible for their own success or failures. at the end of the day all any religous philosophy worth the paper its written can do is give you hints and warnings to somewhat guide you, and hammer it in your head to take everything with a grain of salt. to investigate things on your own. no matter if god himself comes down and tells you otherwise.

[omarthefish]

That's totally true and that has been my experience too.

Now here's the thing,

Esoteric training is inherently dangerous.

http://www.jrf.org/pirke-avot/chap4-footnotes.htm

.....they entered, legend says, into the paradise of esoteric knowledge. "Four (sages)," we are told, "entered paradise, ben Azzai, ben Zoma, Acher, and Akiba. Ben Azzai looked and died; ben Zoma went mad; Acher destroyed the plants; Akiba alone came out unhurt" (Chagigah, 14b). The interpretation of this passage is that ben Azzai died prematurely, worn out by his activities in mystical and theosophic speculation; ben Zoma became demented thereby; Elisha, contemptuously referred to as Acher (the other), became an apostate; but Akiba was unaffected. .....

Likewise, the Chinese have a proverb "zou huo ru mo" (走火入魔) which basically means, "mess around with esoteric traditions and go looney".

If the traditions were whacko on the surface they wouldn't really be dangerous. The Adversary is called the "prince of lies" because he is so deceptive. He plays on human weakness especially pride. The pride in ones own intellect is the easiest. People think they can "handle it" and that you are being silly with all those superstitious warnings.

The Adversary is also traditionally the most beautiful of all the angels. He tempted eve who was supposed to be essentially a perfected being. Adam was fooled before the fall.

To make another analogy, why is it that cigarrettes kill so many more people than crack? The real evil in the world, the stuff that is actually dangerous and corrosive is like ciggarettes not like crack. It has a stylish face and really takes decades of serious research to reveal how it weakens people. It's seductive in the way REAL bad choices are seductive. I WISH it was as simple as it is in the movies. So much easier to counter that way.

[SimonM]

.whose accomplishments include the liberation of the Indians from England's rule - a direct result of the Theosophical movement.

Um... proof?

Last I heard Ghandi was not a Theosophist. He was a Hindu.

[SimonM]

Quite simply, more than anything else Theosophy is about occult (or hidden forces) that drive civilizations spiritually on planes of being that omar and the boys cleary don't understand or want to understand.

I've studied a lot of occult traditions in my time. I've studied the brits, the muslims, the hindus, the chinese, whatever. And after involved study I've come to the position that there are no hidden forces driving civilization. Just a lot of people who happen to be wired up the same way because we are all the same species regardless of our culture, religion or colour. No secret masters, no gods, no old ones, just wonderful, crazy, fallable, beautiful people.

I really gotta avoid posting when I'm drunk...

[SimonM]

Likewise, the Chinese have a proverb "zou huo ru mo" (走火入魔) which basically means, "mess around with esoteric traditions and go looney".
.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Billy]

Likewise, the Chinese have a proverb "zou huo ru mo" (走火入魔) which basically means, "mess around with esoteric traditions and go looney".

Everything depends on your perspective.

I would bet a moron or a retard would call a normal person "Looney"

I woud bet a normal person would call a spiritually elevated person "Looney"


People always insult those that are better than they are. If someone is smarter than you are, or more spiritually elevated than you are, and you do not understand them, are they looney? Or are you mentally deficient?

[David Jamieson]

Everything depends on your perspective.

I would bet a moron or a retard would call a normal person "Looney"

I woud bet a normal person would call a spiritually elevated person "Looney"


People always insult those that are better than they are. If someone is smarter than you are, or more spiritually elevated than you are, and you do not understand them, are they looney? Or are you mentally deficient?

I think you're making assumptions here.
People do not 'always' insult people who show superiority in a skill or a bility. UNless of course those people are bitter and small minded.

Morons or retarded people don't do analysis of the social mores as far as I know, that's why they are morons. As for retarded people, that is a handicap and I'm pretty sure they don't cast disparaging eyes on so called normal folks.

People who are spiritually elevated are fine, however, someone who wants to sell you spiritual elevation and regulate or control your thoughts as to what that is based on their personal agenda...yep, they're looney. BUt say a lama monk? Why would anyone insult someone for trying to find a way to make peace within themselves. Or a christian monk, or a new age meditator or any of them. It is when the dog and pony show is attached to spiritualism that it loses credibility and gains culpability in its aim to twist minds.

Much depends on perspective it is true, but principles or known truths are just that. If you understand the principle, then when someone steps outside the boundaries, there is no cause for alarm when someone notes that there is an inconsistency occuring.

Seances the occult and spirituality were all the rage in the victorian era and right up until now today still have strong followings from all walks of life. Blvatsky came to arise in a time when people were open to all sorts of things due to the repressive society they lived in. They longed for change and teh fanatsy worlds generated by teh likes of Blavatsky and Cayce and their ilk were just the tonice for these bored and stuffy sexually repressed people of that time.

Nowadays, people yearn for some magic to occur, a miracle that will make everything all right in teh world.

The problem with jo jo psychic alliance thinking is that it immediately takes the onus off of you for how you can in relaity contribute to making your life better and instead shifts the focus of that responsibility to the fates and what the psychic tells you. THis is a gross misrepresentation of the message and it is given up ones own power and handing it to another to solve their problems for them. THis act, in and of itself is foolishness for the most part.