Wow...You guys depress me, and now I doubt my art.

[Destrous9]

Wow...You guys depress me, and now I doubt my art.

Well, not really. From time to time, seeing some of the intense discussions on the Internal arts, their effectiveness, and the diversity in schools I sometimes have to dig deep inside to hold it together. I begin to ask myself many questions. Why do I study? Why do any of us study?

Do any of you ever find yourself asking these questions? Really, this is a serious question.

I may never be an effective fighter. Do I need that as a goal? I may not have the most effective school or method. Do I need that as a goal? I have to dig deep inside to reinforce why I choose Bagua. Do you ever find yourself doing this when the slightest bit of self-doubt enters?

This is not about fighting, per se.

If you still practice at the age of 70, and never fight, spar, or have never even had to use your art for self-defense, will it have been worth it? Even if people say your art isn't this or that? Even if your chen or yang or whatever style is berated (just an example)? Is it worht it? If so, why?

I dig deep to answer these questions. I know I will never be a great fighter. I know I will never be a good fighter. I know I never want to fight. Heck, it is my goal to never even have to use Bagua in a self-defense situation. Then why do I study? I have answered these questions for myself, and I do know why I study.

The boards can, on occasion, derail me from my path. Does this ever happen to you? ...and do you know why you study? I'm sure you do.

"Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."
Internal Arts Message Board

[joedoe]

Be sure in yourself, and only take on board what others say when you feel it is beneficial to you. Whether you ever have to use your art in self defence is irrelevant. If you live to 70 and maintain good health, then you have achieved something.

Don't worry so much about what others say. Just be happy with what you are doing.

You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[Destrous9]

From the simplest words come the most profound truth.

"You have no chance to survive - make your time."

Great thought.

"Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."
Internal Arts Message Board

[joedoe]

I'm glad you got something out of it. It was meant to be a joke, but since you pointed it out it is kind of profound isn't it?

As I said though, don't worry about what other people think, just train and be happy.

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You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[wujidude]

Still I would say that you should train your chosen art(s) with martial applications in mind. That is why these martial arts evolved in the first place. And it will do much to ensure that you are practicing conditioning, forms and techniques correctly. Additionally, the mental attributes of awareness and grace-under-pressure thinking do much to deepen the well of your inner being. I would venture to say (although I am far from being there) that there is a tangible spiritual benefit to confronting the fear and ever-changing mayhem of even a sincere free-sparring session . . . of maintaining the calm still center in the storm of sparring or "real" fighting.

Kind of abstract, I know, but it's what I aim for.

[Ky-Fi]

"If you still practice at the age of 70, and never fight, spar, or have never even had to use your art for self-defense, will it have been worth it?

I think that's an incredibly important question, and one that a lot of martial artists don't think too much about. A lot of times the traditional arts get bad-mouthed because they don't offer the quickest route to combat efficiency, and the health, discipline, mental/spiritual well-being aspects of these arts are laughed at or considered of minor importance. Everybody's got to decide for themselves which aspects of martial arts are going to be most useful to them throughout the course of their lives, and I don't think there's a simple answer to the question.
As far as fighting ability being the ultimate goal of martial arts training---yes and no. There are VAST differences in the POTENTIAL fighting skill of individuals. I think all of us have known people who trained in martial arts for many years, but were just naturally non-athletic and non-coordinated, and still aren't very good fighters. And, I think all of us have known people who had very little MA training, but were still athletic, powerful fighters. As I see the MAs, the goal is not so much to become a better fighter compared to others, but to become a better fighter than YOU were with each passing year--that might very well mean that you're going to be better than most of those around you, but it also might not mean that. You can only control how much you improve, you don't really have a say in how good others are going to be

[Ford Prefect]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
"If you still practice at the age of 70, and never fight, spar, or have never even had to use your art for self-defense, will it have been worth it? [/quote]

I think that is a question that can only be answered seperately by each individual. Myself, I like to compete and test myself (mentally, physically, and technically) against other athletes, so my personal answer is no. However, I view the martial arts/sports as tools and nothing more. It is up to the individual person to decide what they want to build with them. There is no right answer, only a multitude of paths. Whether you view one path as right and another as wrong is a completely personal thing and I would urge anyone who sees one path being superior to another to take a look inside themselves and find out why they really feel that way.

"Who's house?"
"I said RUN's house."

[Destrous9]

Great replies. Thanks everyone.

"You have no chance to survive...make your time"

Wow, meant as a joke. Hehe. It made me think deeply. That is the beauty of the internet. Most times we don't understand the poster's true message and get angry...this time it worked in reverse :)

"Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."
Internal Arts Message Board

[TheBigToad]

This might step on some toes here but I think it might needed to be said.
The majority of you who practice martial arts will never be truly and totally highly competent fighters... thats just the fact of the matter.
Before you get totally ****ed off and defensive, what I mean is outside of being able to defend yourself and or make an opportunity to escape, that really all you will ever need, there is simply no reason to train like a Bagua or Xingyi "Warrior" if you don't need to. The motivation simply wont be there, the understand of what you need to work on and improve won't be there either because you aren't constantly in a place where your survival depends on the amount of work and understanding you have.
Sparring no matter how hard or "dangerous" isn't enough, its still sparring, you can learn to defend your self yes, but to totally dominate people and situations no. Reason is "Friends will teach you what you WANT to know, enemies will teach you what you NEED to know" Unless your friends are willing to hurt you as bad and without remorse, physical and mental degrade you like somebody willing to kill you is..then there are aspects of martial skill you will never know.
Unless you are one of these people that actively seeks a career in State/Fedreal Law Enforcement, Executive/Private/International Security and sections of the Military then you actively seeking a "warrior's" life and training style is relatively pointless.
WujiDude said to pick a martial art with martial applications in mind, and thats really what almost everybody needs, something that with practice will enable you still practice at age 70 and beyond. Think health, long life and family.

[wujidude]

Awww, Kevin . . . you took all the fun out of pretending! ;- )

[origenx]

True, I don't expect to actually use martial arts in real life. In our increasingly modernizing world, hand combat skills are becoming ever more irrelevant. And other various skills are becoming more relevant and needed. So unless you're in security forces, you just do it for the art, health or cross-training now.

[Qiman]

I think it would be sad to train until I am 70 and still be a white belt. :confused:

My training needs to enhance my life and health. I can't go full contact or try and break a pile of bricks and injure myself. I need to go to work the next day and support my family.

As a Psych Nurse my probability of being assaulted is moderatly high. My ability to calm people down with talking is greater skill than choking them out. I have used martial ability to deflect, block and escape many times. That is the real world. Being in control of my own actions and emotions while under attack is a personal acheivement.

I hope that I am never tested on the street or have to deal with a home invasion. Could I handle serious assault on my family or self. I don't know? Would I be disappointed if I turn 70 and still not know? No way. The training and martial spirit has already been worth it.