Fushan pak mei and CLC pak mei

[Steeve]

Howdy guys

One questions ...We have the Clc pak mei and the futshan...

Clc pak mei is a variation of the dragon style?...

Futshan I dont know ....I saw the Eddie chong tapes ....the guy who claim to be the only one of fushan pak mei...the guy with the nude head...no disrecpect I dont remember your name....and the big guy of white dragon with tatoo...Sifu Zhong???

Who is the right guy? Why so different pak mei....and why so much difference in the pak mei (futsan)....Ediie Chong and Sifu Nude Head is the same but Sifu Zhong (tatoo guy ) is different ...the salute is different ....

Do you have a opinion about this story....

Steeve

[Steeve]

Pak mei seem to be direct ....footwork is direct straight line....hands motion direct...at the source...


the lung ying used the zigzag footwork ...you evsade and go in to close the range ...upper hands different...


Just my two cent


Steeve

[keilun]

I saw something about Futshan Bak Mei on another forum. Seems to be a big issue!

http://groups.msn.com/BaiMeiQuan/gen...48378761167515

Dont know what all the fuss is about myself, just 2 branches of one style!

[Meklorien]

I saw something about Futshan Bak Mei on another forum. Seems to be a big issue!

http://groups.msn.com/BaiMeiQuan/gen...48378761167515

Dont know what all the fuss is about myself, just 2 branches of one style!

The Fushan Bak Mei also uses a "zig zag" pattern per se. There is a lot of slicing, rending, clawing, and hammering in this style that utilizes rising and sinking power. If you have any basics in Wing Chun or Yau Kung Mon, this style will make a lot of sense to you.

I don't much about other branches of Bak Mei out there. Still learning.

[Magna_nox]

I can only really speak about Dr. Ko and Michael--the one true system: they teach more practical applications than other teachers that I have had. It makes a great deal of sense to a wing chun practitioner. And in regards to intensity and thoroughness, there is none that I know of that is better. In relation, the style of bak mei that they teach is heavily influenced by the need to be the “original.” When learning their system expect a lot of emphasis to be placed upon “the correct” way of doing something.

This issue is in relation to where Michael and Dr Ko originally learned the system—Eddie Chong. Eddie was the original Sifu of Dr. Ko and Michael some years ago. Unfortunately, Dr. Ko and Michael are just as anal about their lineage as they are about their students. They have both always wanted the correct and most ancient lineage to be theirs. Accordingly there was a falling out when Michael and Dr. Ko went over to China and started talking to Sifu Li Yang Jian, who was the teacher of Eddie Chong. Apparently, Eddie had marketed his martial lineage a little more heavily than he should have: he was not the “only” or “last” student of a certain teacher. As a result, Michael and Dr. Ko dropped Eddie and dictated that they are directly tied to Sifu Li Yang Jian. In other words, it has to do with politics. Indirectly though it ruined the relationship between Eddie and Profesor Li.

Despite all of this, the moves that Chong practices and the moves that are in Ko’s and Michaels Bak Mei are still very similar, with only slight differences. After all, they came from the same place: Sifu Li Yang Jian. And in fact, one might even say that the differences are really only there to suit the preferences of one practitioner in comparison to another. It is almost like the same musical piece being played by two different musicians: it is still the same piece. And to the unknowledgeable there would be no differences. But the slight variations define an emphasis and give some individuality to each. But, I must admit that Michael, in particular brings a level of artistry to his forms that is sometimes lacking in Chongs. But whether this is practical or not is another thing entirely. I had the chance to do chi sau with Eddie and unless Michael is much better than he used to be there is no comparison.

As to the other guy--Sifu Zhong--I do not know.

[Yum Cha]

"The one true System", oh my, you have to love that...

My understanding from the video of Coconis I've seen and the discussions I've been party to is that they do a style that is TOTALLY unrelated to what the world knows and respects as Pak Mei Pai.


Here are some threads about them:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...t=34320&page=1

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...hlight=Coconis

[Meklorien]

Apparently, Eddie had marketed his martial lineage a little more heavily than he should have: he was not the “only” or “last” student of a certain teacher.

I know Eddie Chong and I don't recall him saying he was the last or only student of anyone. Rather he was the last (and he was) "closed door" student of Pan Nam regarding Fushan Yong Chun.

Anybody who tells you Eddie tried to stiff somebody or cheat somebody is a fuggin' liar.

http://www.wingchunbakmei.com/

On the flip side, I recall hearing about a couple of guys who Eddie introduced to his teacher and who then tried to ***** the relationship by talking his teacher into letting them film him doing one of the Bak Mei forms -- and then they took it home and tried to sell it and teach it. I don't know if it is the guys you were talking about, but if it is....

[Buddha_Fist]

...Accordingly there was a falling out when Michael and Dr. Ko went over to China and started talking to Sifu Li Yang Jian, who was the teacher of Eddie Chong. Apparently, Eddie had marketed his martial lineage a little more heavily than he should have: he was not the “only” or “last” student of a certain teacher. As a result, Michael and Dr. Ko dropped Eddie and dictated that they are directly tied to Sifu Li Yang Jian. In other words, it has to do with politics. Indirectly though it ruined the relationship between Eddie and Profesor Li...

I am no longer with Eddie Chong, but the above paragraph has several inaccuracies. If you check out Eddie's website (www.wingchunbakmei.com), which had been up and contained the same info long before the fall-out of Coconis and Eddie, there is no mention of Eddie being the only student of Mr. Li. That's a fact. I don't know where you get the "...Eddie had marketed his martial lineage a little more heavily than he should have..." from. He has always been quite open about what he does and what he doesn't do - no secrets. He was even the one who gave Coconis Mr. Li's contact info, as he has done plenty of times with other students who were interested. The fall-out between Eddie and Coconis was initiated by the Bak Mei video that Coconis started to sell without discussing the matter with Eddie. Eddie did not consider the video to be up to par to what should be released on the matter. Things escalated (I'll avoid the details) and Coconis went his own way. Ironically, over time Michael Coconis realized that this video was really not up to par and does not sell it anymore.

The issue did not ruin the relationship of Eddie with Mr. Li, albeit what Coconis might be telling his own students. BTW, Mr. Li is no professor (implies a higher scholastic degree), which does not imply anything in regards of his skill (which I understand is high).

Michael Coconis' rather controversial forum appearances, his bogus claims ("One true system", "world-wide only disciple", etc.) added to his McDojo image have not helped the serious/professional promotion of Fushan Bak-Mei. It is however good to see that he has left his anti-Chong vendetta behind and moved on to hopefully more constructive things.

[Meklorien]

Scratch that. I checked the old threads. It is the Coconic duo who screwed Eddie over the way I just described. How funny they got caught in their own lie like right away. They deserve more embarassment though....

[Buddha_Fist]

Anybody who tells you Eddie tried to stiff somebody or cheat somebody is a fuggin' liar

Amen to that. I have always experienced him as a very kind, honest and good person - qualities which have been taken advantage of way too many times.

[Meklorien]

Amen to that. I have always experienced him as a very kind, honest and good person - qualities which have been taken advantage of way too many times.

Waaaay too many times. Peace Buddha_Fist.

[Magna_nox]

Well, in any event, the version of the story that I have is from one side--and perhaps the insulated side--no insult intended. I myself have had a falling out with Dr. Ko and Michael but when I posted here it was not with the intent to make a dispute with them or anyone: it was merely to tell my perception of the relationship--one which was inferred upon me by other students who stayed with Ko longer than I did. Whether Ko told the correct story to them, and them to me, again I don't know. I had left a few months before the S*** hit the fan so to speak. Or rather, Ko shut the door in my face after four years of learning because I had other priorities: going to college.

All I know is that, what I studied while I was under them was pretty good, even if one had to deal with more politics than was kosher. Practical applications were taught repeatedly. And forms were well taught, again to the point of anality. And in relation to Eddie, Michael and Dr. Ko made it a point, at least while I was there to make sure that we were doing things Eddie’s way. So one can assume that a great deal of “respect” was built up into the “system.” Again, that is why I talked about lineage and all. I have talked to Dr. Ko, through many late nights, and while he has his faults, some of which he brings upon himself, he is a nice, if severe person. More to the point though, Ko always loved respect and being able to quote the “correct” thing. He does have two doctorates after all. In any event, maybe the version of the story that was relayed to me is the one that Dr. Ko himself believes. Either that or, I was given the wrong version of the story through another student, whom I will not name, because Dr. Ko has this thing about loyalty.

In another vein, because it seemed that I ****ed a number of people off, even though I never intended to: I have talked with Eddie. I liked him a lot. He was easy going, and likeable person, who was never pretentious. In fact I have had two seminars with him. And he is able to effectively teach something in two minutes what it would take someone else 10. If I was in California I would go to him in a heart beat. And in relation to him I always had a hard time believing that Eddie could have done what I was told. Maybe the version I was told was screwy to begin with.

As regards the use of Professor—it was always the honorific that was used in relation to Mr. Li, even by Dr. Ko. I merely am using it because it was used with some frequency around the time I left.

[Magna_nox]

In the end we can really chalk these words up to more politics that muddies the waters of what should be clear: studying something elightening like Bak Mei--Martial Arts by relation.

[Buddha_Fist]

Magna_nox,

No worries. It's just that having seen all the past public bashing of Eddie by Michael on the forums left a pretty bad aftertaste.

...More to the point though, Ko always loved respect and being able to quote the “correct” thing...because Dr. Ko has this thing about loyalty.

Plenty instructors ride the respect/loyalty/tradition horse taking advantage of their students (not necessarily $ wise). I don't believe (anymore) in that crap. Respect is earned through daily actions, not titles. And it's a two-way street. Always.

The best instructors I've come to know focus on training and on producing tangible results, instead of deviating their minds towards unnecessary time wasting title-mambo-jambo. Skill always shines through.

[The Xia]

The Luos are well respected Bak Mei masters. There is a good KFM article on them. Here it is - http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=131