Question about contracts for martial arts classes

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This question goes out to instructors who use long term contracts for their students.
What is the purpose of this? I understand the profit magin, but is that simply it. I am asking because I instruct at a university so it is an advantage to have no overhead for utilities, rent, and such. I split the earnings with the university which are basically for pennies because in my area the economy is poor and the demand for MA is not high. I charge per month with no contracts, class is held three days per week, 2 1/2 hours two nights, two hours one night. I would never want to teach martial arts for a living because I believe it would taint the reasons I teach and study. I am not trying to stir the pot with those who use contracts I just would like to hear the main reason why they are used. ?? Thanks

[Golden Tiger]

Although my main school uses them, I never did. I taught in a place where sometimes the students had money, sometimes they helped with cutting my grass.

In my opinion, contracts are a double edged sword. One the one hand, if I know that I am going to have to pay for X months regardless,, them I perhaps will show up, get hooked and stay forever. Sometimes that little incentive is all it takes. Plus, most get discounts for yearly or longer contracts. On the other hand, from a purely business stand point, once they sign, you get paid for X months. If you have a high drop out rate/sign up, you still can keep the lights on.

[David Jamieson]

where i am trhere is a law that you may not bind anyone to a contract for a health and fitness club or program for any longerthan 1 year.

now if you have no overhead, you really don't need one.

teh purpose of having a contract is to ensure that if the person is going to make a commitment, then they are held to that commitment and the person offering the service can go ahead with that service without having to stress about whether or not they can continue to offer the service because people are lax in paying for it.


when i was in my former sifus school, payment of fees was always an issue with many of the students. They would often pay late or have to be reminded time and again to pay their fees. He used no contracts, but there were expectations. Frankly, too high a percentage of those students did not meet those commitments and then the whole cycle of 'bugging' them to pay their dang fees arises. Which sucks.

and if you are a person who gets a service and instruction and is always forgetting your fee or not making provisions to pay that fee and yet always show up and expect your lesson, then you suck too.

pay for your lessons you shirkers or don't complain when you're presented with a contract because there is no other way to get around your weasling out of your fees.

[GreenCloudCLF]

where i am trhere is a law that you may not bind anyone to a contract for a health and fitness club or program for any longerthan 1 year.

I just want to point out this is the case in many areas; but many MA schools choose to ignore it. Generally to have a contract of 1 year or longer you are supposed to post a bond with the state to cover the cost of memebrships if your doors close, to refund everyone. (This goes for paid in full memberships as well).

[Iron_Eagle_76]

A quality instructor should not need gimmicks to keep students, to me, it just seems like a rip off. Students will always come and go but then again, this is why I teach for the love of martial arts and helping others experience it rather than monetary value.

[David Jamieson]

While your intentions may be noble, don't expect that from everyone else.

More often than not, people are takers and not givers. Being a taker is normal, being a giver takes real consideration, patience and effort.

People will treat you as you allow them to.

Be the door, not the doormat.

[splinter]

It really depends on what you're after.
If you're looking to make a living as a MA instructor, I'd say that contracts are necessary, but otherwise, not really.

Contracts will generally increase the amount of time that a student sticks around (assuming they join up in the first place). If they sign the contract, they're either committed to learning from you, in which case the contract shouldn't be an issue, or if they're not entirely committed (for whatever reason), they might stick around figuring they'd might as well get the most of it, and realize the value later.

If the person signs the contract, and quits early anyway, it's some extra cash in your pocket, and you don't really lose anything...

Some might argue that this scenario is the reason you DON'T want contracts (because you feel guilty about taking someone's money and not giving anything back), and that it might frighten students away, but IMO, that's complete rubish...

If what you're teaching is good, and the service you provide is worth the $$ that you charge, the only reason the person would leave is because they changed their mind, and that's too bad. It's the nature of the business.

If a person makes a new years resolution to get in shape, and joins a gym, the gym makes them sign a contract because most people don't stick to their resolutions, and the gym wouldn't survive otherwise.

If you try to go without contracts, you might get a lot more students who sign up initially, but many of them will quit soon after, regardless of the quality of what you're teaching, because they see it as a run of the mill fitness/yoga/pilates class. The contract demonstrates to them that you're looking for a commitment from them as a student, not just as a customer.

It will save you from having to spend excessive amounts of time teaching basics to people who show up for a week, and then decide they prefer sitting on their couch (which is a wast of your time, and theirs).

Of course, if you're not looking to make a living as a MA instructor, you don't need the stability of a semi stable pay check from it, so it doesn't matter nearly as much. When money's not an issue, you can teach on a month to month basis, and with some luck, you'll eventually find some genuinely dedicated students once you've sorted through all the crappy ones...


Ok, I'm done rambling. Feel free to tear into my post where necessary.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Ok, I'm done rambling. Feel free to tear into my post where necessary.[/QUOTE]


Actuallly, splinter, you made some valid points. I do not teach for a living so I understand the need to generate more income, but contracts are still a practice I do not agree with. This is my opinion which in turn means no one cares other than me, but the point I was trying to make is that martial arts often times loses it's sense of meaning when it becomes a money making scheme. It is frustrating when you waste your time teaching basics to someone who quits two weeks later, but one thing I have learned in my years in martial arts is that this will always happen, contract or not. My instructor went through his record of students recently and did a count of total people who had ever taken class. Since he started teaching in 1977, he had nearly 1,700 students who had taken at least one class from him. Out of that 1,700, he has 14 black belts. This is a sample of how many true dedicated students you are likely to get. I got way off subject, here is the point. I hope that the instructors who teach for a living and use contracts still give quality instruction, that is the main point. But inadequate instruction, charging hundreds of dollars for a belt test, and my absolute favorite, having a seperate program to get a black belt and charging an outrageous price for it are works of someone who cares only about money, period. Someone mentioned that is people's nature or something about not everyone teaches simply for the love of martial arts. Ask yourself this, when you started in martial arts, was your goal to make money off ignorant people who at one time were just like you?

[Oso]

I'm having to reconsider this issue myself.

I just had 4 drops last month and, in all cases, was fed a line of bs regarding why.

one guy even came back in and picked up his fei yu's before class and said he'd be back later for class.

One option I'm looking at is not contracts but doing all payments by eft. They can get out of it but it takes 60 days for them to do so. that way you can still have some residual income if they do bail.

[Jun Fan]

I'm having to reconsider this issue myself.

I just had 4 drops last month and, in all cases, was fed a line of bs regarding why.

one guy even came back in and picked up his fei yu's before class and said he'd be back later for class.

One option I'm looking at is not contracts but doing all payments by eft. They can get out of it but it takes 60 days for them to do so. that way you can still have some residual income if they do bail.

So you'd like to continue charging people after they have left your school? Great business plan.

How dare they have the nerve to stop attending classes.

[splinter]

Well, you can put into the contract all kinds of reasonable reasons that the student should be able to get out of the agreement, ie. they move away, get seriously injured, or have some other major change in their lives, or put it right into the contract that they can get out of it with 30 or 60 or whatever days notice.

The point is that if you don't use contracts, you run a much higher risk of being a starving martial artist.

Oh, and using contracts is a sign that you're in it for the money, not a sign that you're in it ONLY for the money. There's a big difference.

[David Jamieson]

risk assumption must be 50/50 to be fair.

Why should teh school have to take 100% of the risk and the person who wants that schools services take no risk?

That is a bad business model moreso than residual payments still coming in because the student refuses to honour their contract.

try not paying your electric bill because you don't feel like it anymore.

[Jun Fan]

try not paying your electric bill because you don't feel like it anymore.

If I for some reason decided that I didn't want to use elcetricity any more, I wouldn't be made to continue paying for it, would I?

[David Jamieson]

If I for some reason decided that I didn't want to use elcetricity any more, I wouldn't be made to continue paying for it, would I?

You would for the term of the contract you are under. Same as any utility.

Like a cancelled lease on a car, or a mortage you want to get rid of, there are penalties, financially speaking in order to get out of just about any contract.

all Im saying is that the student must take responsibility for their contract that they have signed. Just as much as they must take responsibility for their learning.

If people have problems with contracts, they are welcome to move on to somewhere else that doesn't have them.

Let me tell you the odds of good business survivability without contracts, well...it's pretty much less than 5%.

Now if you're learninig out of some guys basement, who cares, that's not really a business, that just an exchange or informal setting, but if the teacher must assume all costs for the training hall and it's utilities, then like any business that cost is passed on to the consumer for the use of the facilities. The contract generally will deal with this issue forst and foremost and you must essentially agree to uphold your share of the facilities you use and you must pay for the time spent teaching you.

anyway, don't like contracts? Don't go to a school that has them. Bear in mind that contracts are often a necessary tool for any business to ensure the survivability of the business.

a contract doesn't mean your being screwed over, it is covering the nut for all people involved.

who pays the insurance that covers your ass if you injure yourself?

read the contract that's all, if you're not satisfied, then don't sign it, plain and simple.

too many people want a free lunch. There is no such thing.

[Jun Fan]

don't like contracts? Don't go to a school that has them.

I don't, and I never will.