Kung Fu effective?

[ninjutsu9]

any fighting style can be useful if you are naturaly good at the type of techniques, and the best self defense is awarness because that is the only way to defend against sucker punches, kicks,etc.

[viper]

Captain pick axe you make some good points I also do bjj at my wc school to make us more rounded. As for anti grappling I know squat bout it but I know bjj so I wouldnt be to stressted if there was groudwork etc. Must be our school we train very alive we box almost as much as we wc its just smart eventaully all arts will be like one. Also chain punches on the ground ive seen that in vid clips and I showed my sifu and theres no way id ever do that standard ground and pound works fine hehe. These wc you have encounters were they just beginners chain punches have power its bout real practice not just air punching got to practise puting the energy into somthing or someone. With scripting of tma pherhaps thats ur issue and not the system.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Unfortunately, that's what most Sifus/Senseis are teaching. Reaction for action. Not only does this throw a wrench into your "game plan" if your opponent isn't strictly adhearing to what the kata requires. It also leaves out the option of being the aggressor in a fight. Who thinks a pacifist who never trains full contact will win against a guy who truly loves to fight? I have touched hands with Praying Mantis fighters, WCers, and bland forms of Shaolin.

All are just entirely too full of themselves and their "rich history" to really give two hand fulls of monkey sh!t about if the students they produce can really fight. Let alone fend for themselves in a true fight situation. We've been training a couple of people here in Minneapolis and back in Texas. Two of my former students are WCers now and they have completely reverted to sissy slapping and senseless spiritualism most TMAs resort to. I think the mindset of most people who study MAs (Mystic Arts) are people who have watched one too many Jet Li or Jackie Chan flicks to really have any sort of creditablity on a real fight.

It all boils down to this:
Either you train to fight by fighting full force, or you train katas to learn a flowery dance.

[CaptinPickAxe]

my favorite thing is when people will take somthing that they personally dont like, or may not understand, and pose as an expert and make claims based on thier personal beliefs.

if anyone has any questions as to whether kung fu "works" you either need to:

a: get a new teacher

b: get your head out of your ass

or

c: just give up now, cause you will never get it.

You take your Kung Fu with your Katas of Doom and I'll take my 2 hours sessions, 3 times a week of hard sparring, rigorous cardio, and form work (for correct form of kicks, punches, throws, and submissions) and we'll see who comes out on top. Or wait... I guess it's just me posing "as an expert" to make "claims based on personal beliefs."

Oh, BTW....
I don't make hasty generalizations.... I form them by spending time researching or practicing with or against an art/artist.

[CaptinPickAxe]

any fighting style can be useful if you are naturaly good at the type of techniques, and the best self defense is awarness because that is the only way to defend against sucker punches, kicks,etc.

You could have the reflexes of a cat on PCP, but only luck will determine if you can counter/dodge/see the sucker punch coming. Even the most trained fighter can be at a disadvantage after a sucker punch....

It really changes your perspective on the world after you've been cold-co cked right on the button.

[viper]

CPA you make many points my belief is train like to fight for me its hard hard go go I supose its putting wing chun in a mma bottle so to speak I tend not to talk to many other schools but many do tend to become to dancy based. why i like wc because punches come staight or around same with kicks "principles" thats it I try to blend science and the other stuff to make a good blend. I personally like training in hard sparing and conditionig it works but i also do forms and etc. Also my friend and I were walkng along he got kng hit out of nowhere no reason or warning it devasted him just put him down I turned to see the elbow by then the second was comin iv exp second or first hand wateva the devastation of a unsesepcting hit can do its true awareness plays a part but we arnt jesus (not trying to offend)_ and we cant see the future its like a rock falling from the sky hitting u n killing u awareness 0% Im not dissing it has its place esp in a confrontation that u actually know ur in thats all. I feel kung fu works so does carrying a fork uno pul it out stab the dude or chick or dog. I guess in suming its the tool u like to use for the job if it gets it done use it but the only way uno if it works is to use it. Also critical factor mental conditioning no amount of training will prepar you for certain aspects just look at post war stress some wont agree some will but look at the whole picture. (im aware of my many gramma n spelling mistakes i put all my effort into training its my excuse n im sticking with it.)

[PangQuan]

You take your Kung Fu with your Katas of Doom and I'll take my 2 hours sessions, 3 times a week of hard sparring, rigorous cardio, and form work (for correct form of kicks, punches, throws, and submissions) and we'll see who comes out on top. Or wait... I guess it's just me posing "as an expert" to make "claims based on personal beliefs."

Oh, BTW....
I don't make hasty generalizations.... I form them by spending time researching or practicing with or against an art/artist.

you mean hasty generalizations like assuming all i do is practice "kata"

dont assume i dont train hard, i train twice as much time as you anyhow.

who says i dont spar hard, or work cardio. and who said i was talking to you in the first place. lol

[Samurai Jack]

Captain Pick Axe:

Thanks for clarifying. I can't speak for or against wing Chun at all, since I've never been exposed to it. I have studied several other arts that rely on centerline theory as a method to exploit a standing opponent's balance, a guidline for sinking punches deep into an opponent's body while keeping some form of gaurd up, and a method for instantly figuring out what angles are open on an oppent at any given moment. These skills apply most directly to stand up fighting, and for that, learning to exploit and control the centerline is probably the single most effective fighting tool I know of.

As far as sparring is concerned, we are in complete agreement. Most, if not all of us need to get pumelled severly before we'll ever get an inkling of how our art really works in a fight. Too bad you live so far away. The local boxing gym just closed and I need some mean angry sparring partners who want to prove my stuff dosn't work. It's a painful lesson, but sometimes it's true. That's why we've got to keep testing ourselves.

Take care.

[red_samurai]

Some people just aren't good fighters and no amount of training will change that.


Western attitude...
You get what you put in....
Hard work makes you a fighter...
You put in serious effort...
You will get serious results...
Im not talking what you "think" is serious...
it has to be real...
Hard work beats lazy talent anyday...
Talent...
Gee... Billy doesnt like baseball cause he isnt good at it...
he hasnt even tried hard...
lets put him in choir or something he has talent for..
He dont like to try hard!
it hurts his feelings!
Awe... he is crying... He didnt work at it hard enough and he only has himself to blame
If you get beat.... its because some one worked harder...
Maybe not that instant...
It coulda been in training in the past...
but it all catches up...
Some of us have a clue... but... I think thats about it...
Hard work defeats all obsticles...
just do the "Right" hard work...
and if you are really "serious"
then its no problem.
Talent... phhh

[PangQuan]

if it takes one man one time to master his technique, you practice ten times.

if it takes one man ten times to master his technique, you practice one hundred times.

if it takes one man one hundred times to master his technique, you practice one thousand times.


with this method even the most untalented individual will get it.

i agree, hard work is the answer...

[CaptinPickAxe]

Captain Pick Axe:

Thanks for clarifying. I can't speak for or against wing Chun at all, since I've never been exposed to it. I have studied several other arts that rely on centerline theory as a method to exploit a standing opponent's balance, a guidline for sinking punches deep into an opponent's body while keeping some form of gaurd up, and a method for instantly figuring out what angles are open on an oppent at any given moment. These skills apply most directly to stand up fighting, and for that, learning to exploit and control the centerline is probably the single most effective fighting tool I know of.

As far as sparring is concerned, we are in complete agreement. Most, if not all of us need to get pumelled severly before we'll ever get an inkling of how our art really works in a fight. Too bad you live so far away. The local boxing gym just closed and I need some mean angry sparring partners who want to prove my stuff dosn't work. It's a painful lesson, but sometimes it's true. That's why we've got to keep testing ourselves.

Take care.

I only pass on the tradition that my Sifu started. I don't teach, I just exchange ideas. Sometimes it's more than what is brought, sometimes I'm the student. It seems, as you said, we agree on training... but that's where it seems to end. I believe conditioning is the most important fighting tool. Even if you know how to exploit the centerline, if you can't take many solid punches. Your chance to exploit will have been waisted.

I have to leave for a few, but when I return, I will continue on my point.

[PangQuan]

I agree

conditioning is certainly a point many martial artists overlook a bit too much.

if you find yourself up agains a solid opponent with a strong defense, and you cant last the several minutes its going to take to get inside or finish up, you will lose.

after your winded the first thing to go is your technique, so without proper conditioning your techniqe is worthless.

we lose a lot of students yearly at our school due to this, we do lots of conditioning. i find that the average person interested in the martial arts, are not willing to put in the work it takes to achieve a good rounded fighters conditioning.

conditioning is an excellent aspect of traditional arts that should certainly be put to use. run, climb, push, hit, get hit. and then do it all again.

[SevenStar]

Um...which one of these is not like the others?

heh. Wrestlers. They are the ones that aren't stand up oriented.

[SevenStar]

Hard work makes you a fighter...

nah. fighting makes you a fighter. All the hard work in the world isn't much help if you've never fought. Hard work is key, but that alone won't make you a fighter.

[PangQuan]

hard work is a pre-requisite of a good fighter.