Wing Chun/fight other styles

[Emeraldphoenix]

I am not trolling or trying to start flame war.


I am curious if you guys ever spar other styles. It seems that i only ever see you sparring with in your own style.

I took Wing Chun for about 6 months and i have respect for the style. It just wasnt my cup of tea. I always hear stuff like, " other styles cant handle our tech." General stuff like that.

So any one that is stictly a wing chun practioner, have any experiences of fighting other styles i would love to get some feed back.

[Fajing]

I personally like to spar practitioners from other styles. A few of my buddies practice various arts like BJJ, Boxing, and Karate. It's fun to mix it up with them. Strengthen your own game by knowing what's out there. We all learn from each other. What is your preferred style?

[Emeraldphoenix]

I am with you on mixing it up with various styles. Just have a hard time finding any wing chun people that will venture outside of their style. That is why i posted the question. I study 7 * currently.

This issue of going outside your style is not limited to wing chun it just seems that it goes on more so in wing chun.

[fiamacho]

We have always encouraged sparring and competing with students from other styles, it is the only way to really sharpen up your skills.

What I have noticed over the years is that Wing Chun practitioners always seem to have a problem defending against styles that love to predominantly kick or lately grapple. I have always thought of this as just a mindset thing as a lot of the "sparring" seems to based around hand techniques only.

[viper]

Yeh 4sure I love sparring other systems its like they dont know me I dont know them its great. When you fight wc vs wc they know what youre gna do unless ur like our school we somtimes take other sysytem techs. Our school higher encourages spreading our wings so to speak but I agree alot no this works against a wc guy no on the street it doesnt matter just stick to ur principles. Also at our school we have alot of really good tkd guys train with us for hands so I kinda get best of both worlds still love my hands but. Also my bjj teacher is fun for sparring with he was a wing chun sifu and a karate black belt so he knows all the tricks we haveso it dont matter brain vs brain i think. Soon im sparring a guy who learns arnis in the phillipines frm the gm hes bak coz my sifu who is also my buddy i live near is his friend n has arranged it im gna get whooped but I love the growth i will get frm it.

[Liddel]

Ive rolled with a few differnt styles of Karate, VT, kickboxers and MMA styles.

It took me a while to get to a place where i had enough confedence to approach strangers of other arts to spar, but some have become good friends and it was an invaluable experience.

For those that are approaching a level where they would feel comfortable to do so i would reccomend training with any other style because it makes your learning curve a little steeper


"So any one that is stictly a wing chun practioner, have any experiences of fighting other styles i would love to get some feed back."

My biggest test so far was sparring with my friend who is a member of a close protection squad for my countries diplomats - tough hombre's , mentally and physically -
They mainly use CQB and MMA techniques and approaches.

Im surprised how similar CQB tech's are to VT in relation to the straight foward approaches.

His MMA was far beyond my fighting ability (after all im not a proffesional) but during sparring, specifically being taken down, i realised my VT can help me in places on the ground and he helped me apply a VT mindset to a MMA style - subsequently he also adapted certain traits of my VT, such as elbows -
(mainly because of the smaller action with my VT elbow which makes it easier for him to smack suspects without on lookers being able to see it - yes they are a dodgie bunch !)

His first comment after we rolled was " you have very deceptive power"

[Green Cloud]

I have to agree with emeraldphoenix, from my experience in kung fu tourneys, when win chun people are in divisions like Chi sao they do good. But when they venture into continuous sparring where long arm tech. and kicks are employed wing chung people don't do very well.

I think the reason is that most wing chung practisioners don't like to venture out of their comfort zone. As a supplement to ones training I think it's great.

greencloud.net

[Green Cloud]

Expanding on supplemental training is important. Wing chung is great if you have some kicking skill and some grappling abilities. Wing chung by it self makes for an incoplete fighting style since it only concentrates on a specific range of fighting. Altough I think others would dissagree especialy wing chung purist.

greencloud.net

[ghostofwingchun]

I have to agree with emeraldphoenix, from my experience in kung fu tourneys, when win chun people are in divisions like Chi sao they do good. But when they venture into continuous sparring where long arm tech. and kicks are employed wing chung people don't do very well.

I think the reason is that most wing chung practisioners don't like to venture out of their comfort zone. As a supplement to ones training I think it's great.

greencloud.net

What is continuous sparring?

Thanks,

Ghost

[Green Cloud]

It's just sparring that is done in kung fu tourneys. Unlike the point system that is used in Karate tourneys where they stop you every time you get a point by hitting a legal target. In most kung fu tournaments they allow you to go full out to the body and allow controled contact to the face. The fight is interupted after the round is over and the fighter who controlled the round is the winner.
Usually most fights are two two minute rounds unless there is a tie.

Just to re cap in karate competitions they use the three point rule and you are stopped every time some one gets a point. Also there is no contact allowed to the face and light contact to the body.

In continuous you keep on fighting till the fight is over then the you get scored on your overal performance. A lot more realistic.

greencloud.net

[TenTigers]

There are many WC schools that do very well against outside stylists. It is totally up to the training methods of the Sifui. Sifus like Duncan Leung, and Alan Lee train their guys against kicks,and strikes ranging from muay thai kicks to CLF strikes-probably based on their Hong Kong days. I knoe there are other instructors who train this as well, but there is still a tendancy to pidgeon-hole in training, which will cause a rude awakening in fighting.
I would be interested in hearing how many schools also train against outside techniques.

[sihing]

Expanding on supplemental training is important. Wing chung is great if you have some kicking skill and some grappling abilities. Wing chung by it self makes for an incoplete fighting style since it only concentrates on a specific range of fighting. Altough I think others would dissagree especialy wing chung purist.

greencloud.net

What's the definition of "Complete"?

If it is the ability of the art to teach one how to deal with all ranges of fighting and all fighters from whatever range they specialize in, then WC is very capable in it's ability to teach one what to do. Whether or not people use what they learn correctly is another story. WC takes you half way, what you do with it brings you all the way.

I think there is alot of misconception out there by people that think they know what WC is. There is longer range fighting in WC, Mid range fighting in WC and shorter Range Fighting in WC, but really it is the practitioner that determines to which range they will fight at. If the art you are learning has only answers to specific things, like punches for example, and nothing else, then it is "Incomplete" IMO. Otherwise what you are learning is a complete art in the way it provides protection for you when it is needed most.

The basic idea behind closer range infighting is you are taking away space from your attacker, with this you take his ability to attack you away also because most people and styles need space to generate power from their structure. Also, visual cues and reaction time are taken away since the action is happening so close to the body, therefore contact reflexes are needed here, which most fighters do not have to a high enough degree to use functionally.

James

Geez, why I respond to this stuff is beyond me, I need help.........lol

[Green Cloud]

Sihing I'm not specifically talking just about wing chung all styles have gaps in there fighting. I'm just basing my argument on what I see from Wing chun practitioners at tourneys. Tournaments are not necesarally a represantation of wing chun on a whole, since I have also run across very good wing chun people. To be honest most of these guys also had various MA backrounds and in many cases used wing chung as a base for there fighting but also reverted to other fighting theory's.

Closing the gap is a very important issue that I feel the majority of win chun practitioners often avoid dealing with . I just think for most people it's a matter of preference. Even when it comes to styles like Bjiu jtsu wich is very effective tend to avoid the issue of stand up some guys do well closing the gap others just get knocked out while they try to close the gap by shooting in.

Most of us get too comfortable in the theory or range of our prospective style.

greencloud.net

[sihing]

Sihing I'm not specifically talking just about wing chung all styles have gaps in there fighting. I'm just basing my argument on what I see from Wing chun practitioners at tourneys. Tournaments are not necesarally a represantation of wing chun on a whole, since I have also run across very good wing chun people. To be honest most of these guys also had various MA backrounds and in many cases used wing chung as a base for there fighting but also reverted to other fighting theory's.

Closing the gap is a very important issue that I feel the majority of win chun practitioners often avoid dealing with . I just think for most people it's a matter of preference. Even when it comes to styles like Bjiu jtsu wich is very effective tend to avoid the issue of stand up some guys do well closing the gap others just get knocked out while they try to close the gap by shooting in.

Most of us get too comfortable in the theory or range of our prospective style.

greencloud.net

Closing the gap is a competition thing really. On the street, when someone wants to kick your A$$, you won't have to worry about "closing the gap" as the dude will be in your face. Since WC has nothing to do with Competitions, it is like comparing apples to Bananas...But just so you know there are things learned for "closing the gap" in WC, but this is only one man's opinion....Whatta I know ah?

James

[Green Cloud]

Once again Sihing, el gwapo is no match for your superior intelect. But I am still basing my opinion from tournaments not street fighting, I thought I was clear about that.

Here is a story, I was in my kwoon one day basicaly doing what I'm doing now wasting my time on this forum. Any way a young swarthy guy walks in with an attitude.

As I always do I asked the kid If there was anything I could do for him or any questions I can answere for him. The guy in a very frustrated way told me that he moved from the city to the Island and that he couldn't find a descent studio to train in.

My reponse was really where did you train before?? Turns out it was a very reputable BJ school. and he was frustated on how many paper tiger schools he had walked into. Looked aroung my school and noticed the professional set up, that and that my school is in a mall and responded. " huh youre probably a paper tiger too.

Of course I took offense and invited him to try me out on the mat. As I always do out of respect I took a bow. Mid bow he shot in toward my legs. Well being that he was a beefy young lad I imediatly responded with a pow choi( cannon punch). This tech is a long arm tech wich is used to keep an opponent at bay.

Well it was my lucky day, I caught him square under the chin and it was lights out.

My point is that if he maybe used a kick to close the gap he may have gotten me to the ground.

Now that was a real fight even though it wasn't in the street. At a recent long Island Kung fu tournament, I watched students of mine that actually trained for a long time and went to onother school to do wing chun. These guys entered the continuous sparring divisions using their newly developed wing chung skills and they got tooled. I don't think there was one guy from the various wing chung scools that won in the sparring.

If you don't believe me ask Pedro Yee cepero from Yees hung ga, he was the center ref.

The fact is that people stay with there styles because of preference and comfortability, regardless of the gaps that are inherent in their style.