Cant train , going to jail

[Celestial Amiboshi]

I can't believe you had the nerve to come here looking for sympathy. The simple fact of the matter is that you behaved like a barbarian and now you will suffer for it as a caged beast for a year. Perhaps you will learn to control your primal rage there.

You just had to act the part of the macho stereotypical male didn't you? It's pathetic and misguided. Another thing, I wasn't aware that a female could be a male's property. She is not "your girl". She is an individual and free from anyone's control.

Oh dear, American society is riddle with problems isn't it? The fine art of diplomacy is lost on so many people today. It really is sad. Perhaps if people began to use their minds these sorts of things wouldn't have to happen.

"Love is something which is never meant to last. It is but a flower that blooms and then withers away."

[doug maverick]

dont drop the soap.

[wujidude]

This is a clumsy way to do this, reposting an entire thread from another KFO forum here, but I thought more people might read it this way. I think the working assumption on this thread from the "Street Reality" forum is that they are discussing the response of the person who is being attacked, the defender . . . in stark contrast to the response of the attacker in this "Can't train . . . " thread.

Kungfu Magazine > The Kungfu Magazine.com Forum > Street/Reality Fighting > Talking before Fighting Prev Topic • Next Topic
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TigerMaster
Member

From: -
Registered: 08-22-00
Posts: 10
Talking before Fighting
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I have read the topic discussions on the attitude and visual manner of approaching confrontations. Another area I thought that might be interesting to discuss is the best wording to use in a confrontation. I am generally not a person to throw the first punch, unless in extreme situations. I believe that almost all confrontations can be resolved with the correct wording during the confrontation. I don;t believe telling the agressor that "I'm really sorry, and don;t want to fight" is going to help at all, unless your were born with an elastic band as a back bone... but I also think that telling the agressor "listen buddy, you are in real trouble if you mess with me" sounds really corny and if I were the agressor I'd probably laugh at the guy and hit him anyway. I find that alot of people stop there martial arts training at the physical ability aspect, where as the mental and verbal ability are initially as important. Obviously your stature and appearence play a large role, but often more so is the words you choose. I have a couple ideas on the wording during confrontations, but I just wanted to get some feed back from you guys. I'll post my idea's later.
One must learn how to fight, in order to learn how not to fight!

posted 03-12-01 04:59 AM

Tigerdragon
Member

Registered: 10-02-00
Posts: 74
here
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I posted this in another thread on this forum, but it applies to this as well so I will just copy and past it here:
My old way was to appologize and portray the "lets not do this" attitude and try to just talk him down. This did work most of the time, but there would be every so often it would escalate. Ususaly to a simple push or grab that I would turn into a joint lock/manipulation and cool him off by projecting total superiority. Only on a couple of occasions did I have to take it to the next level after that.

Now, I simply start by apologizing for whatever was the cause (weather its my fault or not) and if that doesn't work then I say say something like " OK I tried to be nice, which isn't easy, but your not happy. So if you really want to fight then just try it and lets see how fast "I" can do this" And I say it all with a smile. This gives the impression that I have no doubt that I will annihalate him.

Since my change, I have not had a single confrontation go past that.

I decided on this change after reading a study of how in almost all mamels (primates and human included) The alfa-males do not always have to fight to get that spot. In actuality its usualy enough to simply project "confidence of superiority" over the challengers.

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force.

Just my 2 cents

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind, be ready, and go full force.

posted 03-12-01 02:57 PM

omegapoint
Member

Registered: 10-28-00
Posts: 19
Talking...
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Tigerdragon,
This strategy you speak of is well documented in the annals of Martial Arts history. Matsumura Sokon (an integral "father" of the Okinawan arts) called this "Obiyakashi no Heiho", or "Sabre Rattling". In other words an attempt to bluff ones way out of confrontation . This technique has a down-side to it though. As my Sensei puts it "... once the bluff is made you may have to back it up with force. 'Ki kara saru ichiryu' -or- 'even monkeys fall out of trees'... this is an old samurai addage that serves to remind us that even an expert can be defeated by a novice... all opponents are dangerous regardless of their skills. Do not allow yourself the luxury of being over confident. 'Don't bite off more than you can chew', and don't bluff unless you can back it up."
This technique should be combined with "Minari no Heiho" or the "Strategy of Appearance", but that is for another time. Peace...
posted 03-14-01 04:49 AM

Tigerdragon
Member

Registered: 10-02-00
Posts: 74
believe me I know
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I always use a "confident" appearance and I always have someone at my back to help if I get in trouble. You also have to remember, this tends to happen with people who are drunk (usualy very much so) or just had a bad day and are not ready to back up their own words. I also read people's eyes. They say alot. Anyway, this is something I do, but don't nessisarily recomend unless you are confident with it.
Just my 2 cents

Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

posted 03-14-01 06:43 AM

TigerMaster
Member

From: -
Registered: 08-22-00
Posts: 10
Guess I'd better now post my point.
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I agree with Omegapoint that it is necessary to be able to back-up ones confidence and appearance with force, but the fact that we do martial arts means that we are trying to achieve and perfect this force. I too agree with Tigerdragon that one cannot simply bow down to another even if the agressor appears to be bigger, stronger... what ever. Though I think one must look at the situation and decide whether it is best to back off... due to being out numbered or what ever the reason, or to stand firm.
It obviously depends on the situation, such as amount of friends or agressors present, if your family or the agressors family is present is another factor. But I think in a general one on one confrontation, there are certain ways to handle it without needing to prove that you can hurt him.

I have always believed that aggression is generally caused by replasing thought with anger. So, if you are able to resturn thought to the aggressor, chances are, he will not attack.I have found saying the following to be very effective. I generally say to the aggressor "this is going to end up going one of 3 ways, you f*ck me up and I sue you for assault, I f*ck you up and you can't do **** cause it was self defence, or you and I both walk away and have a good evening!" What I find this does is it return the though of consequences to his mind, and he begins to think of the repecussions of his action. You convince him in his mind that he is in a lose/lose situation.

That's just my opinion though... I'd really like to hear some other points from other members. Thank you for your posts.

One must learn how to fight, in order to learn how not to fight!

posted 03-14-01 09:16 AM

TigerMaster
Member

From: -
Registered: 08-22-00
Posts: 10
Guess I'd better now post my point.
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I agree with Omegapoint that it is necessary to be able to back-up ones confidence and appearance with force, but the fact that we do martial arts means that we are trying to achieve and perfect this force. I too agree with Tigerdragon that one cannot simply bow down to another even if the agressor appears to be bigger, stronger or what ever the reason. Though I think one must look at the situation and decide whether it is best to back off... due to being out numbered or what ever the reason, or to stand firm.
It obviously depends on the situation, such as amount of friends or agressors present, if your family or the agressors family is present is another factor. But I think in a general one on one confrontation, there are certain ways to handle it without needing to prove that you can hurt him.

I have always believed that aggression is generally caused by replasing thought with anger. So, if you are able to resturn thought to the aggressor, chances are, he will not attack.I have found saying the following to be very effective. I generally say to the aggressor "this is going to end up going one of 3 ways, you f*ck me up and I sue you for assault, I f*ck you up and you can't do **** cause it was self defence, or you and I both walk away and have a good evening!" What I find this does is it return the though of consequences to his mind, and he begins to think of the repecussions of his action. You convince him in his mind that he is in a lose/lose situation.

That's just my opinion though... I'd really like to hear some other points from other members. Thank you for your posts.

One must learn how to fight, in order to learn how not to fight!

posted 03-14-01 09:17 AM

ope
Member

From: Grenada
Registered: 03-08-01
Posts: 121
This is funny because i have never gotten in a fight but came very close serveral times most times i just ignore them.. believe it or not alot of times it works but some people think by ignoring them it shows a sign of weakness so sometimes they try to bully you more its wierd cause i just keep ignoring them eventually they get tired and burned out of yelling and cussing at me they walk away.. i hate to have bad blood between people where i live if you stand firm alot of times the other person might get more aggresive but i mean dont get me wrong there are times when i stand firm depends on the situation i forgive people for there ignorance... but there are some people who just look for it...
posted 03-14-01 08:34 PM

Tigerdragon
Member

Registered: 10-02-00
Posts: 74
Good point Tigermaster
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However, often, if the person is drunk or high they could care less about the consequenses if they kick your a$$. The only thing they see is, your a stranger, if they win they can get away and you don't know them and that will be the end. So my suggestion to you is maybe change your statment a little just to show you have confidence in the fact that they will be hurting if they try it. When the first option you mention is "you could beat me" this plants a seed of encouragment on them because they will think you are afriad of them. I would suggest leaving that option to the end of your statement.
Just my 2 cents
Assumption is the mother of tragedy. Just keep and open mind and be ready

posted 03-30-01 01:43 AM

Ansgenius1
Member

Registered: 02-06-01
Posts: 25
smiling eyes
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There is a technique known as smiling eyes and it coincides with what you guys have been talking about with saying "Don't mess with me," while smiling. It either gives the impression that you know what you are doing, or you are about ready to go postal.
posted 03-30-01 06:25 AM

oldwolf
Member

From: Scotland
Registered: 02-07-01
Posts: 34
Talking distance
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Sorry I'm late getting into this thread but here is my thoughts:
Firstly talking distance is one of the forgotten ranges in the martial arts, and can be used to close the gap, personally I've never had that problem the gap closes all by its self.

An aggressor rides high on the wave of adrenalin, the buzz, and it is your control of an opponents high that is your first line of defence / attack.

You have two option, fight or make them back down, its that simple, walking away and turning the other cheek will likely end in serious damage, but may occasionally be a solution.

To make the aggressor back down you must first make him lose conrol of the adrenalin he is riding, it then becomes fear, fight or flight etc. Show him you are the bigger animal, just as someone posted earlier this will often cause the other to lose thier bottle. Ha Ha but sometimes you have to follow through and demonstrate your are the bigger animal.

Switch them off, this is where you show submissiveness, disarm them vocally, 'I don't want any trouble' , then as you line them up ask them a stupid question, whether they want to or not their brain will engage the question and for a split second they are blind. Knock them out.

Simple huh?

This is not the only way, but it does work

If you haven't been in a lot of confrontations, practice it.

If you have, try it.

If you have been on the recieving end, read it and weep.

For further information ideas etc. Find a British Combat Assoc, instructor near you.
Get some of the stuff by Geoff Thompson and Peter Consterdine.

www.geoffthompson.com


"And the crowd called out for more"

posted 04-09-01 01:33 AM

[Esteban]

Hi Ma_Xu_Zha

sorry to hear about your trouble. No advice, but I'm curious what your instructor had to say.

Best,
Esteban

[GeneChing]

Well, here's a odd thread from the deep dark depths of our archives. I'm totally hijacking this thread for Tai Chi in Prison news.

Female prisoners to learn yoga, tai chi, sewing and SHOPPING instead of taking part in prison employment
The new $330million plan will treat female inmates with mindfulness exercises
Prisoners will be taught yoga, tai chi, meditation, sewing, knitting and shopping
The plan aims to stop convicts from reoffending and help them change habits
The activities will be run by NGOs and be given priority over prison employment
By Sam Duncan For Daily Mail Australia
PUBLISHED: 16:20 EST, 21 February 2018 | UPDATED: 16:20 EST, 21 February 2018

Female prisoners will be taught a range of mindfulness-based exercises under a radical new plan to stop them reoffending.

The New South Wales government plan will cost $330million and see inmates learn yoga, tai chi, sewing, cleaning and shopping rather than work while behind bars.

Focusing on women and Aboriginal inmates jailed for six months or less, the project aims to break the cycle of reoffending and help with rehabilitation.

Female prisoners will be taught a range of mindfulness-based exercises under a radical new plan to stop them reoffending (stock image)


The New South Wales government plan will cost $330million and see inmates learn yoga, tai chi, sewing, cleaning and shopping rather than work while behind bars (stock image)

The proposal highlights 'mindfulness-based activities' for female prisoners, according to documents viewed by The Daily Telegraph.

'As an example, external providers could be used to teach yoga to [female] inmates,' the document states.

'Participation … will be prioritised over competing factors such as prison employment.'

Corrective Services NSW will select 1200 prisoners to join the High Intensity Performance Units, operating for half a day on five days every week.


Focusing on women and Aboriginal inmates jailed for six months or less, the project aims to break the cycle of reoffending and help with rehabilitation (stock image)

Non-government organisations will be enlisted to provide inmates with 'rehearsal and practice opportunities'.

NGO will run activities to educate prisoners, take part in health and exercise programs and connect with their communities and culture, the documents state.

A spokesperson from Corrective Services NSW said the plan would offer real hope to female inmates struggling to break negative cycles.

'It is important to recognise that women in the correctional system suffer from high rates of sexual and domestic violence, so programs are designed to address these specific needs and offer a real opportunity to break the cycle of reoffending.

'[There will be] a focus on release planning, health and social issues including exercise and meditation, education, and connection with community and culture.

'This will allow inmates undertaking rehabilitative programs to take the skills from the unit back to their cell to be practiced and reinforced at every opportunity, building new behaviours and changing existing habits.

'Exercise and other health providers will also direct inmates to practice the skills and strategies learnt within the unit, such as coping with aggressive thoughts and feelings.

'The units also focus on pre-release planning from day one, including access to children, local mental health services and family visits.'

The program will lead to the creation of 87 new positions in the ten High Intensity Program Units, based mainly in regional NSW.


Corrective Services NSW will select 1200 prisoners to join the High Intensity Performance Units, operating for half a day on five days every week (stock image)

Hold the phone...shopping? srsly? And those pix of women doing yoga outside in nature seem really inappropriate for this article.

[PalmStriker]

I think they are trying to teach them to shop without "shoplifting". The addition of Yoga is just the icing on the criminal behavior reform cake.

[GeneChing]

I'm feeling a trend here.

Poetry and tai chi to boost Swansea prisoners' health
17 June 2018


Poetry and tai chi are among the alternatives to medication being offered to prisoners in Swansea.

Sessions ranging from art therapy, sport and gardening will be provided to 20 men at the prison.

Until now, prisons have opted for more traditional care services to meet the physical and mental needs of inmates.

The first course will start this month, and could be followed be a larger project aimed at improving health and wellbeing, and reducing reoffending.

Social prescribing - referring people to a range of local, non-clinical services - is already available to patients registered with a cluster of GP surgeries in Swansea.

Voluntary and community groups will deliver sessions.

Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board, which provides primary care services within the prison, has worked with Swansea Council for Voluntary Service and Swansea Prison to develop the pilot programme.

What will the sessions involve?

An arts therapy workshop

Emotional support and resilience, encouraging the men to support each other inside and outside the sessions

Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, helping the group take care of their wellbeing - such as making good food and exercise choices, managing chronic pain, reducing stress, and being kinder to themselves and others

Physical activity - eight sessions of Tai Chi Movement for Wellbeing sessions

Improved life skills - practical skills and knowledge around healthy eating, the nutritional value of food and ways to increase physical activity

Mathew Taylor, head of reducing reoffending at Swansea prison said: "These programmes will hopefully assist our men to make better, more informed and calculated choices about their future behaviours.

"This will then hopefully help them to develop vital life skills for their future, contributing to a reduction in reoffending."

"It is hoped that it will be the start of a larger project, including preventative work around domestic violence, relationships, harmful behaviours and more."

[GeneChing]

I thought this story was debunked. Who knows with the news nowadays? I'm copying this to the Cant train , going to jail thread on the Tai Chi subforum and if it persists, myabe I'll split it off into its own indie thread.

Prison coach: Lori Loughlin’s martial arts training ‘horrible’


BOSTON MA. – AUGUST 27: Actress Lori Loughlin and her husband Mossimo Giannulli leave Moakley Federal Courthouse after a brief hearing on August 27, 2019 in Boston, MA. (Staff Photo By Stuart Cahill/MediaNews Group/Boston Herald)

By JOE DWINELL | joed@bostonherald.com | Boston Herald
PUBLISHED: January 4, 2020 at 5:01 pm | UPDATED: January 5, 2020 at 8:29 pm
Lori Loughlin’s pre-lockup regimen reportedly includes martial arts training — a “horrible” idea that could land her in a harsher jail environment, a prison coach told the Herald.

Loughlin, 55, facing decades in jail if found guilty in the “Varsity Blues” college cheating scandal, is said to be anticipating a prison stint, according to reports. To brace for potential jail time, the “Full House” actress is being schooled in the dark arts of surviving behind bars.

That includes jail etiquette — from not looking other inmates in the eyes and learning the proper slang to not owing anyone a favor, the New York Post reports. Also, she’s taking martial arts training to fend off bullies, the website RadarOnline reports.

That martial arts tutoring, said Michael Frantz, director of Jail Time Consulting, better only include the solo exercise tai chi.

“She does have a prison coach and she’s getting horrible advice,” Frantz said Saturday. “If found guilty, she’s going to a federal prison camp and there won’t be anyone there beating her up.

“You actually don’t want to fight at all,” said Frantz, who said he has two Varsity Blues clients in his prison prep program. “If you fight, you will be sent to the next prison a level up. She’ll first go to the hole and then to a low-security prison.”

Frantz said “bulking up” for a fight is the wrong approach. Learning not to sit in someone else’s chair in the TV room, not taking any favors, knowing what to buy at the commissary and working the federal prison system to get out early should be Loughlin’s focus, he said.

Fellow actress Felicity Huffman, who did less than two weeks in a federal prison dubbed “Club Fed” just outside San Francisco last year, played it right, Frantz added. Huffman took a plea deal, apologized and quietly did her time. Her husband William H. Macy stopped by often to visit.

The former “Desperate Housewives” star served 11 days of a 14-day stint at the Federal Correctional Institution in Dublin, Calif. She was let out early before the weekend hit.

Loughlin and her designer husband Mossimo Giannulli are accused of paying a combined $500,000 to cheating scandal mastermind Rick Singer for their two daughters’ admissions to the University of Southern California as fake crew recruits. The charges include fraud and money laundering.

Singer has pleaded guilty in the “Varsity Blues” case and is cooperating with the government.

Loughlin and Giannulli’s blockbuster trial is expected to occur this year, with the next round of high-stakes hearings in federal court in Boston next month. Both have pleaded not guilty.

Frantz, who once did 36 months in prison for tax evasion, said Loughlin should brace for boredom — not a fight.

“Don’t go into the shower barefoot, but give back any sandals a fellow inmate loans you,” Frantz said. “You don’t want to owe anyone a favor. Don’t talk about yourself. No drama. No screaming. And watch out for guards, too.”

He stressed the federal prison system has programs focused on helping inmates get out early. That should be Loughlin’s focus, he added. “Second Chance, First Step programs are in place. She should study that. Once inside, take classes. Work on a book and know your prison manners. Time moves slowly inside,” he said. “Time is a killer. Time is the enemy.”

He added nobody will attack her, sexually or not, unless she invites it. The same goes for her husband. “Get into a project,” Frantz added.

“She should have taken the plea deal for two weeks in jail,” he added. “It’s going to be much more now.”

Hope Lori has watched Survivor's Guide to Prison with mi jefe Danny Trejo (you should all watch it):