Royal Bodyguard Kung Fu, Tai Chi.

[Royal Dragon]

Who did you learn "Chao family Tai chi" from?

No don't tell me, I already know you don't know anything about the art. I know you are fake.

Reply]
Fake ehy? and just where have I misrepresented myself?

I assume you are saying the long list of credentials and hand wriiten genalogies are not real, even though I have seen them. Signed and sealed by a real member of the Chao family.

Reply]
Everytime I checked out his claims, they turned out to be false...I don't hold ANY value to his hand written credentials, and niether does anyone else.

>>Not by a fake inheritor like Livingston, who was never #2 man in CFCWA. He never met master Chao. Sifu was the one who gave him the membership and it was not for number 2 man.

Reply]
I have copies of the documents with him as a CO owner of Cloud forest in the erly 90's, that makes him the number two man of the time period. How could he have been so, and not have met Chao? Don't you think that claim is a bit suspect?

>> I know my teacher sent you the Emperor's Long Fist book and that is where you get most of your information.

Reply]
Nope, not even close...I have numerous resources...who do you have besides Natoli/Ka$h?

>>I know for a fact my teacher can back up everything he says in a court of law. Can you?

Reply]
**Coughcoughbluff**cough!!

>>I understand your anger, my teacher exposed you about five years ago for what you really are. Every real person in the Chinese martial arts community knows that you are.

Reply]
Oh really? exposed me? For what? There is not, and never has been anything to expose. I have allways been up front about everything I do, and where it all came from. I have never made any grandious claims about anything. Rememebr, it was YOUR teacher who falsley claimed to be the head of Chin Woo, AND the head of Won Ark Wey's family. If I remember it right, it was *Me* that exposed *him*.

Nice try pal.

>> So you have to turn it back on my teacher. Sad, you dont get a yellow belt and open a home page and act like you are hot ****.

You keep comparing you videos and keep making your conclusions. Make sure you keep spouting your lies.

I know you have said that master Chao was a fake.

As for the course I displayed, how can anybody criticize this? You don't even know what this is about. I know no one here could handle one blow from this style. This is the highest level of Kung fu under natural fist. No fakes here know the worth of this course.

Reply]
Apparently it's worht $160,000 to some fool...

[Scott R. Brown]

I know no one here could handle one blow from this style. This is the highest level of Kung fu under natural fist. No fakes here know the worth of this course.

Well Golly Batman!!!!!! I'll tell you something interesting, no one can withstand my invicible blow as well. (If i hit you in the right spot, at the right time, and in the right way!!!) Not even Superman!!! And no one can withstand Mike Tyson's blow......oh wait......he HAS lost a few bouts hasn't he and the winners HAVE withstood his blows. But NO ONE can withstand a blow from a 125# Tai Chi MASTER !! Yeah!! If all you are allowed to do is stand there and take it.... maybe!

The problem you have is your claims are a bunch of bunk! It is not the "highest level" of kung fu, and NO, I don't need to see it too know that! Anyone who says their Art is the "highest level" of anything is either a novice, a fool or a con-man!! It isn't the ART that makes a man invincible. Although some methods are more comprhensive than others, it is the individual that excels NOT the ART. There are only so many ways to strike, kick, parry, block, trap, throw, and lock, and YOUR style does not have any secret method that some other ART doesn't use. You have been watching too many Hong Kong Movies!

NOW, if you want to spend your money practicing an ART you find interesting and valuable to you that is fine. But when you start advertising is as the "highest level" you get the ridicule you deserve.

[Oso]

As for the course I displayed, how can anybody criticize this? You don't even know what this is about. I know no one here could handle one blow from this style. This is the highest level of Kung fu under natural fist. No fakes here know the worth of this course.

KFG, you are just being ridiculous. I've been trying to put as positive a front on this whole situation as possible...in spite of your idiotic attempts to prove something you can not prove.

This is going to sound arrogant, but...if you haven't yet, find out who I am in regards to Kash and Ward. I know how things got started in NC and where they were going. If you have ever heard the names 'Soke Cherry' and 'Shihan Ferrel', I also have information from another direction than Sifu Ward. Sifu Kash has some good information to pass on. What came from him is not a small part of who I am now as a martial artist and a fighter. I owe my old teacher, Sifu Ward a lot. He's even more responsible for who I am now than Sifu Kash is. But, it's not undefeatable by any stretch of the imagination.

You are being stupid in your denial and in your refusal to research and learn. Sadly, unless I am mistaken, you are not young so you can't blame youth and inexperience...get a grip, get some information and think for yourself. Keep training with Sifu Kash as you can learn a lot. My belief is that he has 'been there and done that'. But, for Zod's sake, stay the fu(k off the boards as you don't know what you are talking about and you are only making things worse.

[kung fu goat]

Hey, "Matt", sifu says please watch your language and direspect to me as his student. I put 25 hours a week with sifu, i know what comes from him.

05/01/06
RD
Mr Gian Lencioni dont you feel bad about slandering sifu Kash since 2001, on all these gossip forums. Are you not ashamed of how you tried to hurt this mans business, his reputation and his good name. Your malicious gossip and slander and defamation of character is irresponsible as a martial artist. Were you aware that sifu Kash offers state university course on martial arts? This is uncalled for, what do you have to say about that? Dont you think you owe this man a public apology.

After all sifu Kash sent you a copy of his Emperor's Long Fist book in 2001 in hopes that you would realize edgar livingston is basically a nobody in the system. He ownly recieved 2 videos that Sifu sold world wide on the subject. The videos recieved a 4 star rating in 1989 in inside kung fu magazine. Among the world's best internal system. What did your sifu get?

You never did answer who you studied tai tzu chang chuan from.

[Hard Fists]

Stop humoring him.

[Royal Dragon]

I think you should stop attacking me, get your head out of the sand, and do your research.

I have already provided you with some of the tools you need. You can also contact Chin Woo, and Won Ark Wey's seniors for further info on your teacher's credentials.

Use the internet to find more resources. Your teacher's credentials are in queston, you owe it to yourself to do this research.

[Oso]

Hey, "Matt", sifu says please watch your language and direspect to me as his student. I put 25 hours a week with sifu, i know what comes from him.

LOL...I haven't disrespected you or Sifu Kash. I'm actually trying to keep you from causing your teacher more harm than good. But, have at it. This whole debate has gone 'round before and will likely go 'round again...with the same results.

[kung fu goat]

So in other words, all you have for David Kash, is contempt and reckless disregard, am I correct?

I know who my teacher studied from and his credentials, as I have seen them along with several other people.

You have still not answered my question, "Who did you actually study from"?

I am tired of talking to you about this, because you do not answer any of my questions, when I have answered all of yours.

Does this mean that you will attack my credentials and gossip and slander me, with reckless disregard and lies, like you have Sifu Kash, when I go to open my School in the near future?

[Royal Dragon]

Like I said, your head is in the sand.

Paper documents mean nothing, ASK his *Classmates* what they think of his claims and ask Chin Woo where he actually stands with them.

Buy the VCD's, and compare the FORMS themselves. You will see. All the truth is right there out in the open if you just look at it.

Trying to turn the focus on me isn't going to help your plight.

[Royal Dragon]

when I go to open my School in the near future?

Reply]
All I can say, if you are openeing a school, you'd better make damm sure you are not passing a modern Yang based Tai Chi system off as a 1000+ year old martial art of Tai Tzu Chang Chuan.

If you wish to continue perpetrateing the deception, if you wish to pass the lies on to unsuspecting students(read as *victems*) who place thier trust in you, then you are as bad as your teacher and deserve no respect or recognition from anyone.


So, the question is, do you wish to be a respected Sifu who is known for his honesty and integrity, or would you rather just be a worthless two bit con man?

[Brad]

Just ignore him. He's as stupid, dishonest, and cowardly as his fake @ss teachers. I think this thread's run its course.

[Royal Dragon]

I think the '8 Gates' as you are referring to them were referred to as the '8 original moves' and are the subject of an IKF article in '86 before CYF died.

Reply]
Yes. The 8 Gates s I was taught are the 8 methods of Tai chi Ward off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pull Down, Spliting, Elbow, Shoulder hips, done in the 8 directions. There are shorter progressions of 4directions, and only one for very entry level beginners.

>>They are the only thing I teach as 'tai chi' and simply refer to it as a short intro to the Chao Tai Chi set.

Reply]
This is a great way to teach the Chao system! I generally spend a large amount of time on the basics. I teach the 8 methods first, then I teach them in the 4 gates, next is te 8 gates, and finnaly the 64 move form (Same as 8 gates, only with the additional footwork you mentioned a few pages back).

Since all that is really just the 8 methods taught in various patterns, you get a great foundation in the basics. I save the 37 for later, and i don't even teach the long form. I think it is a much better way, than jumping in and going direct to the 37 move form. I really feel most Yang schools rush the porcess by doing that, and I am glad our system has a program of strong fundementals built into it's core curriculem.

[Mr Punch]

12000, 2 years, '4th level black sash', four hours a week?! You are a joke.

Sorry, did I leave off a couple of periods round here?

[Kymus]

Hey, "Matt", sifu says please watch your language and direspect to me as his student. I put 25 hours a week with sifu, i know what comes from him.

05/01/06
RD
Mr Gian Lencioni dont you feel bad about slandering sifu Kash since 2001, on all these gossip forums. Are you not ashamed of how you tried to hurt this mans business, his reputation and his good name. Your malicious gossip and slander and defamation of character is irresponsible as a martial artist. Were you aware that sifu Kash offers state university course on martial arts? This is uncalled for, what do you have to say about that? Dont you think you owe this man a public apology.

After all sifu Kash sent you a copy of his Emperor's Long Fist book in 2001 in hopes that you would realize edgar livingston is basically a nobody in the system. He ownly recieved 2 videos that Sifu sold world wide on the subject. The videos recieved a 4 star rating in 1989 in inside kung fu magazine. Among the world's best internal system. What did your sifu get?

You never did answer who you studied tai tzu chang chuan from.

Disinformation tactic #2: Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used to show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.

you really need to learn how to form an argument before engaging in a battle of words with other folks. I don't know much of anything about the issue you are discussing, but I must agree with the others: you're digging a grave for yourself and your teacher with such very poor arguments.

[Oso]

I think the '8 Gates' as you are referring to them were referred to as the '8 original moves' and are the subject of an IKF article in '86 before CYF died.

Reply]
Yes. The 8 Gates s I was taught are the 8 methods of Tai chi Ward off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pull Down, Spliting, Elbow, Shoulder hips, done in the 8 directions. There are shorter progressions of 4directions, and only one for very entry level beginners.

>>They are the only thing I teach as 'tai chi' and simply refer to it as a short intro to the Chao Tai Chi set.

Reply]
This is a great way to teach the Chao system! I generally spend a large amount of time on the basics. I teach the 8 methods first, then I teach them in the 4 gates, next is te 8 gates, and finnaly the 64 move form (Same as 8 gates, only with the additional footwork you mentioned a few pages back).

Since all that is really just the 8 methods taught in various patterns, you get a great foundation in the basics. I save the 37 for later, and i don't even teach the long form. I think it is a much better way, than jumping in and going direct to the 37 move form. I really feel most Yang schools rush the porcess by doing that, and I am glad our system has a program of strong fundementals built into it's core curriculem.

I don't teach the Chao system. But, until recently, it was the best internal stuff I've been exposed to. (Kevin B. has taught us some stuff that I'm practicing now) So, when I wanted to change up class a bit, we'll do an 'internal' night and do some of the chi kung and the 8 original moves and then I'll show where they fit into the rest of what I teach.