Why CMA Doesn't Win the UFC

[neilhytholt]

Okay, I think it was a bad idea to start this topic.

I wanted to hopefully convince some CMA people to change their minds and let me come to their school and work on stuff without doing their forms, by convincing them that their training methods were inadequate due to the fact that CMA folks don't win the UFC.

That requiring people to learn the forms of each and every (new) school is a waste of time.

Instead, it seems like both sides are entrenched in their opinions, and there is no middle ground.

It seems like we need a referee to call an end to this fight in the 10th round (or however many pages this has gone).

[Royal Dragon]

This thread is stupid and everyone is missing the point.

Reply]
Actually, I got the point a long time ago, that is why I'm not arguing too much.

[unkokusai]

you do know that liddel is a wrestler, right? He has wrestled ALL his life and was division 1 in college - in other words, he was dayum good. ...

Kung Fool (Green Cloud) isn't going to understand what that means...

[Royal Dragon]

knife is right. all the striker would've had to do was back up. the ref wouldve stood them both back up due to stalling. The striker wouldn't have been allowed to attack him, but he definitely didn't HAVE to go to the ground with him.

Reply]
Dude, you are one of the guys who backed my argument when it blew up a few years ago...

[Green Cloud]

Ok ST I guess since we are on a first name basis you got everything figured out.

[SevenStar]

knife is right. all the striker would've had to do was back up. the ref wouldve stood them both back up due to stalling. The striker wouldn't have been allowed to attack him, but he definitely didn't HAVE to go to the ground with him.

Reply]
Dude, you are one of the guys who backed my argument when it blew up a few years ago...

no way, unless I was trolling. I may have said that I don't approve of butt scooting and sitting guard, but I couldn't have said that there was a venue which made you fight on the ground if one opponent was down.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Let's put some gloves on the MMA guys and ask them to compete using SAN DA rules than lets see what happens.

Hey I know we can start a thread that sais, Why don't MMA guys win San Da

There is no debate here gentlemen just a lot of Jaded ex CMA guys that never got to learn the good stuff.

From my expereince as a san shou guy turned mma guy, I can tell you that honestly MMA is where the best go to compete. (Even Cung is here now.)

I think san shou is the cat's meow myself but ex. I was recently asked to enter myself and several of my fighters in a san da vs. muay thai format fight. I was kinda psyched but when I talked to my guys and explained to them what san da was they were like:

"Wait a minute you mean I go thru the trouble of picking this guy up and slamming him down on teh ground and I'm not allowed to beat the living daylights out of him, I've got to let him back up? No thanks Coach, let's just fight another mma fight!"

and they make a great point. They prefer MMA because the rules are more free and allow you to reap the rewards of knocking a guy off his feet.

The more open the rules the better the fighting imho and I think that when you fight mma there is no one who can say "well I wasn't allowed to use my knees to the head." etc. as excuses.

btw am I included in this ? : "Jaded ex CMA guys that never got to learn the good stuff." because that's b.s. I was in cma for 9 years with respected sifus. I learned good kung fu.

Just because my opinion is not aligned with yours doesn't mean that I sucked etc. I think that's a petty and feeble retort to a legit conversation.

[Green Cloud]

Easy does it fella, no I wasn't talking about you. I was just trying to establish a repoir with you. Although I do sense that you have a love hate relationship with kung fu. As far as your kung fu training I gave you credit for studying under those masters.

[mysteri]

... In my opinion Sifu Hoy Lee is a good man and he has good kung fu skills but he's no fighter.. (although there are some of his students who have great potential I think they are his senior instructors now.)...

hey ST, thanx for the kind(?) words about my sifu, very interesting perspective. although i might add that ur opinion would be in GREAT contrast with those who truly know. but of course, i'm sure that u have first-hand experience with him and of accounts that could lead you to that opinion(?). yes, i'm also aware that sifu lee sent u to learn "san shou" from mike barry and that sifu lee mainly taught u hands and weapons forms. i'm sure my sifu feels that mike barry is a top san shou coach (plus he was jow ga now), so that would be quite reasonable.

as an interesting note, my sifu cross-trained in a lot of different styles in SE ASIA(judo, muay thai, karate, white crane, hung ga) and was actually a SENIOR instructor under one of the more famous burmese boxing teachers in hong kong. other than the fact that sifu lee was FIRST known as a very formidable fighter before he even began learning jow ga by many of his peers, it would naturally seem counter-intuitive that one could successfully instruct people in burmese boxing(with it's brutal repuation) without being pretty tough themselves.

anyway, i'm jus babbling on, but i wouldn't want people to feel mislead from a stray commment. hope ur school is doing well there.

by the way, ohio, eh? i'm sure u've been to the big columbus ohio tournament of course. last year, u might've seen one my my sihing's who did pretty well against one of cung le's top lightweights. another one of my jow brothers, BJ, was voted "best san shou competitor" after knocking out all of his opponents within the first 30 seconds. not everyone can be the best, but the instruction is all the same.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Mysteri,

fwiw, last years Arnolds was a joke and I don't think any of the major teams even attended. No suprise that a tough Jow Ga guy stepped up and won a division.

I understand you loyalty to your teacher and I was aware of his cross training. The reality is that I asked sifu if he could train me to fight sanshou in 1995 and he said "no, we don't do that, but I know a Jow Ga teacher who can" and that was it. In fact I've always respected his candid reply instead of stringing me along doing another form and telling me how someday it will make me a better fighter. Hoy Lee knew what I wanted and he gave it to me on a platter. (Maybe he knew Mike and I would get along coming from Ohio and having a wrestling background?)

I still wear my jow ga shirt sometimes...

[hung-le]

How is full contact with only fencing head gear and all targets available somehow "not enough contact" for you?

http://www.tworavens.org/gallery/Pen...ampions?page=1


Try football with sticks ......


Give you an idea of what I do, here is some pics of a champions battle. What a champions battle is ....its the best fighter in the USA coming together to fight a resurrection/submission battle. Honestly, this particular battle might have been the nastiest I've been in. It lasted 45 min and a hold was called 7 times while medics with an ambulance carted dudes off.

My brother in arms had 2 sheilds destroyed and shredden (and we were using rattan!!)

I used a pole arm for this melee and I was hitting guys and snapping head horizontal, then knocking them down with shoulder strikes or cross checks with my weapon and even striking them as they went down...guys were popping right back up an giving me just as good as I gave them.....

[mysteri]

Mysteri,

fwiw, last years Arnolds was a joke and I don't think any of the major teams even attended. No suprise that a tough Jow Ga guy stepped up and won a division.

I understand you loyalty to your teacher and I was aware of his cross training. The reality is that I asked sifu if he could train me to fight sanshou in 1995 and he said "no, we don't do that, but I know a Jow Ga teacher who can" and that was it. In fact I've always respected his candid reply instead of stringing me along doing another form and telling me how someday it will make me a better fighter. Hoy Lee knew what I wanted and he gave it to me on a platter. (Maybe he knew Mike and I would get along coming from Ohio and having a wrestling background?)

I still wear my jow ga shirt sometimes...

hey ST,

glad we have an understanding. again, i wouldn't want people to be mislead from a comment with no clear foundation. not much harm done, to each his own.

i wish i could say i'd witnessed first-hand the arnold tournament. it seems to attract a lot of different people every year. sifu lee's daughter tammy has been all-around grand champ twice now i think and his son sam once. though they both have many other golds from numerous tournaments, i'm sure it's no wonder they walked over competition so easily, lol.

yeah, one cool thing about sifu lee is he's a pretty upfront kind of guy. i think after he realized how popular ring fighting was getting, he actually decided to start learning how to use stuff for ring fighting instead. though we've always had random guys compete in full-contact events, he's always wanted to put together one good san shou team, but it's hard to get enough guys to simply be devoted to that. unfortunately a lot of people are only attracted to the forms and culture of gung fu, moreso than the gung fu combat itself. so i understand ur plight for sure w/ that.

i wish i could say i always had the time to train for more full-contact fights(though this summer might prove different, new job), but i honesfly only like the format of the kuoshu lei tai format fights. it's difficult for me to do somethin like sifu's "angle kick" in san shou i'm sure u know

as for MMA, i'm all for it! i'm jus not at the point where i feel the need to cross-train yet. a friend of mine runs an MMA school and mostly teaches BJJ himself, so sometimes i'll roll w/ his guys for fun(i used to wrestle so i like to keep the feeling a bit). i jus like learning the "what-not-to-do's" as opposed to the "this is how u get him down for one of these!"lol. i also like when we roll and i hear them say,"ahh! u can't do that in MMA" that's how i know my technique is perfect, lol. i got invited to play tomorrow, i'll let ya know how it goes if i show.

in the end, we're both jow brothers(to an extent) and family disagree, but in the end it's all luv right?

[Green Cloud]

Mysteri how are you this guy is no Jow Ga brother, Regardless of what styles I did in the Past I would never put my coaches down and I always give credit to all the styles I have learned. It's called respect something these guys no nothing about. St never once gave credit to Sifu Hoi lee for leading him in the right direction.

These guys are like disgruntal spoil brats that never got there way. If the style doesn't suit them then they think it's crap.

Funny thing is everyone of these complaining brats have studied Kung Fu at one time or the other, unfortunatly they didn't get it.

So now they hang out on a CMA forum complaining and dissing Kung Fu. This is what I was talking about Mysteri, I think your Idea was a good one about letting other styles compete in our CMA tourneys but it definatly should be full contact.

Invite these guys down I'l step in the ring and let's see how these guys do. I get caught up in these debates all the time with these Jhony Come lately wana bees, and I am dumfounded by their lack of respect.

These so called fools that represent them selves as MMA actualy make MMA people look bad. These guys are just the ill manered bullies that made most of us turn to kung fu.

Forget about the fantastic cultural bridge that brings people from all races together as brothers.

These guys are just neanderthals UUGGG I've got you in the Guilotine UUGG look at my speedos while I mount you. You can't have an open conversation with these guys.

with their extreme prejudice toward kung fu they might as well be racist.

My only question to these guy is, why hang out on a CMA forum and argue?? It's almost like you guys need validation or something.

Why not hang on a MMA forum why troll here if you guys don't accept us than Skrew you because the CMA community like to stick to their own no one asked you to join us.

It's all about loyalty and these guy don't have any that's why they are Jack of all trades and masters of none.

greencloud.net

greencloud.com

[unkokusai]

These guys are just neanderthals UUGGG I've got you in the Guilotine UUGG look at my speedos while I mount you. You can't have an open conversation with these guys. ]

F-ing hypocrite

[unkokusai]

with their extreme prejudice toward kung fu they might as well be racist.

Now this is just flat-out stupid.