Why CMA Doesn't Win the UFC

[unkokusai]

As far as spelling is concerned I'm actualy just bad at typing, but like I said I'm not writing a book nor is this a spelling bee.

No, that's not it. You are not just striking the wrong keys, you are making spelling errors. Many of them. Attempting to brush it off won't help you.

If you don't care enough to pay attention to your spelling, or at least to use the spell check, why should I believe that you really care about what is being said?

You are obviously very bad at spelling. It doesn't necessarily mean you are stupid (although the "if you don't like kung-fu you are racist" comment did bring that conclusion to mind). Why not face it and try to do something to improve? You will have better conversations and will have done something good for yourself.

[unkokusai]

Petty petty petty shiiiaaat, while you are doing your spell check I'm just posting away, and I have yet to have a real convo with ya well it's time to hit the hay so see ya hate ta be ya

You don't have to be ashamed, just decide to do something about this problem you have. You can do it!

[mysteri]

ST,

i think ur trying to be respectful and not intentionally disrespectful(although it does kinda have that backhanded feel), so we'll jus leave it at that.

i would agree that maybe my sifu isn't some "great" fighter. but then i would ask u who is? the same type of fighting that mike barry was doing back in the day, both ring and real, was not much different from my sifu's, other than maybe locations. so is mike barry a "great" fighter? a lot of sifu lee's fighting occured in 60's HK/70's states(washington, DC). i'm sure u know these were pretty hot spots for those who thought they were "tough" of course, so it ain't no walk in the park. as a matter of fact, he accepted challenges openly for the first 2 years he was in DC and fought almost every single day, but after about 2 years people stopped stepping up(?) and more and more were signing up...hmm...

but jus food for thought, who are some "great" fighters and how would we qualify them? if u say muhammed ali, george foreman, julio cesar chavez, mike tyson, etc.. yes, these guys have their reps as great boxers. mike mcdonald, maurice smith, ernesto hoost? surely strong forces in K1. shamrock(s), matt hughes, tito ortiz? quite the entertaining MMAist... bruce lee?(et al) definitely good fighter, among a lot of guys who came out of hong kong like that. but what i'm gathering is that unless we take guys like mike barry, mike tyson, mike mcdonald, and bruce lee, and pit them against guys like shamrock (et al) that they are not "great" fighters? if that's not the picture ur painting, then i think we're all a bit confused...

anyway, again i have no need to try and "over" qualify my sifu as again, those who know and who have been around know for sure. but i jus kinda think it's silly to throw conjecture w/o first exploring the facts. unless of course, u feel that ur words here don't really carry much weight anyway, which i wouldn't really disagree. although, i do try to make a personal habit of only saying things on boards that i would be prepared to say if directly in front of that person/group.

glad we both carry the same love and respect for jow ga.

[Pork Chop]

ST00

Sorry if I was guilty of talking around you; I just was trying not to drop any names. When I was living in MD I had to keep my mouth shut about a few things.


mysteri

I, for one, am not all that big on MMA. You know me, I like Thai boxing, San Da, and Western boxing. May do MMA someday, but it's not a huge deal for me. I could be wrong, but I think the major criticism going on in this thread toward kung fu fighting wise is the total disdain for sport fighting. If you and your classmates compete, it's a moot point and the criticism isn't geared towards you. If you're one of those schools that thinks the be-all end-all of kung fu is tournaments, forms, continuous sparring, lion dance, and being too street lethal for the ring, then the sport fighting guys would maybe want you to open your mind. Again, I could be wrong, but I don't think the "anti traditional" viewpoint on this thread is "UFC or bust", but more a "fight if you say you're a fighter" viewpoint.


Green Cloud

Just to help you out with a little japanese lesson (not interested in the name calling):
as stated before- koko = "here"
unkokusai = "shit stink"

[Knifefighter]

. as a matter of fact, he accepted challenges openly for the first 2 years he was in DC and fought almost every single day,

And you know this how?

[Green Cloud]

It's common knowledge, hey he's not my Sifu but I know about it just like most people in the CMA world.

[Knifefighter]

It's common knowledge, hey he's not my Sifu but I know about it just like most people in the CMA world.

A challenge fight day for two years? Think about that. That is over 700 fights. The fact that an instructor is telling his students this (or at least letting this myth propogate) is surely an indication that he is and was no fighter. Anyone who has actually fought knows how ludicrous this claim is. Unless one was fighting seven-year-old girls, dead people and those confined to an old folks nursing home, the injuries would pile up until one was unable to get out of bed.

I don’t know which is worse, an instructor who spews forth with this nonsense or the gullible students and other CMA practitioners who believe it.
700 challenge fights in two years....
Give me a freakin’ break
Can you see why those doing MMA’s have little respect for many CMA practitioners?

[brothernumber9]

The frequency of fights was obviously an exaggeration. But it is attested among DC area chinese martial artists and teachers that he accepted and fought in open door challenge matches when he first opened his school. I wasn't there or trained back then, but some older heads I have met support this claim.

[brothernumber9]

coming from a traditional chinese martial arts school, I'm more inclined to side with more of the viewpoints from so called "MMA'ers" than what some of the so called "traditionalists" have put forth.

[mysteri]

Pork Chop,

Hey man, sorry i forgot to respond to u bro. glad things are going well here, finally starting to step back into training. know what ya mean about the career bro, but these early sacrifices are worthwhile for me.

(posted by knifefighter)

Anyone who has actually fought knows how ludicrous this claim is. Unless one was fighting seven-year-old girls, dead people and those confined to an old folks nursing home, the injuries would pile up until one was unable to get out of bed.

(really? tell that to UFC's jeremy horn among others)

Knifefighter,

first, plenty of old school guys who were there are still around, feel free to ask. second, even if we were being quite conservative, and said it was 1-2 times weekly. let's consider that given ur environment, growing up fighting on a weekly basis is not unusual for almost any kid of a ruff inner-city neighborhood. it was actually jus more of a pass-time even, people wanting to "test their skills" against others. u grow up during ur teens and twenties doing this, and when u come from another country, open ur school, and say ur a fighter, how many people are gonna wanna find out? seems as ur intrest is piqued as well. but more importantly, even if it were a very conservative average of just once weekly over a 10-year period, we're talking a few hundred. i say "almost every day" because the quotes from those guys were,"any day we didn't run into a fight was a good day". sorry that they were not sanctioned, recorded, and televised for ur amusement... but, an amusing fact is that after he (or one of his students) was done beating down whatever [insert tough guy] stylist, he was known for having his students drag the guy out into the middle of the street where an ambulance would later pick the guy up if he couldn't leave on his own accord).

btw- for the record, my sifu tells me straight up,"hey, i didn't 'win' every fight, i've taken my share of losses (jus not bad enough fortunately) and u always have to remember that anyone can get took." but of course, this is also commonly understood.

oh yeah, injuries? yeah, those were not uncommon. he also spent a great deal of his training time(about 6hrs/6 days weekly) conditioning fist/shins/feet, etc... remembering that he was first heavy into burmese boxing, this is not somethin unusual among those guys as i'm sure u well know. thank u for ur interest.

[mysteri]

oh yeah,

i meant to contribute my opinion. i really don't see where there's argument? i can't speak for all CMA schools and CMAist cuz there are definitely a lot who don't pursue a realistically practical level of martial skill undoubtably. i am definitely amused by MMA's and i think it's cool to watch. if i ever feel the need to be validated, qualified, or anything similar, i might jus start entering competitions. it would be fun to do jus for a different understanding of combat, i'm jus not at that point as far as motivation yet. i'm not really sure why some people here might feel so threatened(?), unless someone trains guiltily with unrealistic/exaggerated expectations, then sure they might feel threatened and unsure. but really, for the most part, it's not a big deal. alright, i've had enough amusement for a bit.

[SevenStar]

if i ever feel the need to be validated, qualified, or anything similar, i might jus start entering competitions.

ya know, I think that's where some of the misunderstanding lies. that is why many of you think of mma guys as ego filled - and also, why we see some of you as egotistical. It's not a course of ego - I really don't give two witch titties about what anyone on this forum or real life thinks of my skill. I compete

1. because I like to
2. because I like to test myself

not to prove myself to anyone or validate my skill level. Now, that said:

it would be fun to do jus for a different understanding of combat, i'm jus not at that point as far as motivation yet. i'm not really sure why some people here might feel so threatened(?), unless someone trains guiltily with unrealistic/exaggerated expectations, then sure they might feel threatened and unsure. but really, for the most part, it's not a big deal. alright, i've had enough amusement for a bit.

I do believe that EVERY martial artist should step into a full contact venue at least once. Doing so will indeed teach them about combat and help them gain experience in dealing with an agressor while under extreme pressure. This experience is invaluable in the street, so I would think any MA would jump to take advantage of it. You can say what you want about thinking you may or may not train with unrealistic expectations, but the simple reality is that most people will never have an altercation in their adult lives. Consequently, they don't expect it. Then when it happens, trained or not, there is a chance you will freeze under the pressure of the adrenaline dump because you couldn't deal with it the way you thought you could. Competing comes in handy here.

Matter of factly, someone posted a thread along that line the other day on another forum I post on. A marine who had 9 confirmed kills in iraq - one which was hand to hand combat - got robbed while he was walking with his girlfriend. He said that he just froze. He wasn't aware and wasn't expecting an attack.

[mysteri]

ahh, cool information...

true, most people will not have many altercations in their adult life if any, but of course it's nice to try and aim for preparedness as best as possible, though truly unattainable it may be. so then we as martial practicioners can train for arts sake, technician's sake, attrition's sake, etc... and should not feel threatened or the need to threaten others on it really. pursuing passion is a very personal thing, regardless of ur reasoning. but agreed, jus understand that everyone may not share ur(arbitrary "you") POV and sometimes u have to be prepared to defend it in several ways.

i'm sure that one day maybe i'll train some ring stuff before i get too old. it's kinda one of those things where if work wasn't in the way, i would certainly jump at. but it's not a deep enough passion for me to want to sacrifice a whole lot for it. but i do have a deep enough passion to want to sacrifice for my own personal skill development. drills, conditioning, drills, sparring, drills... touching hands w/ other like-minded/open-minded persons... i don't have much a need to cross-train, but i like to touch w/ other stylists, learn somethin new about myself.

[hungganyc]

This has to be the dumbest thread I have ever read. Martial Arts was not created for sport. The initial question or point of this thread was “Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?”
Who are you talking about and I guess they must represent the entire CMA community? So I guess the UFC is the standard for martial arts now? I have a lot of respect for those guys who step in the ring and test their Martial Sport Skills, but I didn’t start learning martial arts for sport. Some of the best real fighters I know have never stepped into the ring and I’ve been around for a while.

A few years ago I saw a guy lose to another guy in the ring. Later a fight started between the two same guys outside in the parking lot. The guy who lost in the ring destroyed the other guy in the street. So much for his competition skills. Some body should have told this guy before he got his head split open that his competition skills would get him hurt in a real fight. I’m sure there are lots of Sport Fighters who can really fight, but can’t you see the prejudice in some the statements on this thread?

Yeah I know that there are some so called TCMA out there who are more concerned about looking pretty during forms and do not train for real fighting, but you’ll find that in any style.

I’m sure guys on this forum with more than 30 yrs. experience recognize that there IS NO SUCH THING AS MODERN MARTIAL ARTS. Yeah I said it. There is nothing new people. There are MODERN training methods, but there is no such thing as Modern Martial Arts. I know there are a lot of hardheaded people out there who want to believe that there is a difference and those are the ones who need to check their history. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick no matter what you call it.

The main difference I personally see between the so-called MMA vs. TCMA is that TCMA involves more of the traditional etiquette, customs, rules, principles & culture of its’ origin. The problem is that many people have forgotten that the “tradition” in Chinese Martial Arts also represents real fighting

To answer the initial question “Why CMA Doesn’t Win in UFC?” Well in my opinion some CMA or “kung fu” people haven’t formatted their training for sport fighting or UFC. There was mention of Hoi Lee not being a fighter because he sent his student to a coach named Mike Barry to train him for San Shou or whatever. This is an example of my point. Knowing Hoi Lee’s reputation in Chinatown fights, I don’t think it was because he himself couldn’t fight. It sounds logical that Hoi Lee recognized that his particular skills and knowledge at the time were not suited for San Shou competition. This is another problem. Some CMA Sifu’s are putting their students in rings or arenas without the experience of sport fighting. The other side is that some CMA spend more time trying to fight someone elses style rather then putting in the time to learn how to utilize their own.

By the way, I love to watch UFC

[unkokusai]

A few years ago I saw a guy lose to another guy in the ring. Later a fight started between the two same guys outside in the parking lot. The guy who lost in the ring destroyed the other guy in the street. So much for his competition skills. Some body should have told this guy before he got his head split open that his competition skills would get him hurt in a real fight.

LOL

Folks love to take (most often unverifiable) anecdotes and try to draw whatever conclusion fits their dogma from them.


Good stuff.