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Thread: Can meditation be dangerous (demons)?!

  1. #46
    I was reading the AVMA journal or American Veterinary Medical Association journal.

    There is an article on depression rate is higher on students in the vet schools across the state on May 15 2006 issue.

    I was only tired when I was in the vet school. I think I was just too busy to think about being depressed.

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    a change of routine or a break from classes or just do something different or have a life time habit or hobby of physical activity. For me there were swimming and CMA practice.

    my point is that keep yourself busy, so you dun have time to think or lament or remorse or grief etc.

    keep a habit of a certain physical activity for life, be it jogging or treadmill walking.

    find a way to use your body physically while not using or relaxing your "thinking" minds.

    --

    If you are in the boot camp, the drill sargeant dun let you think. they drill you over and over till you drop.

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    Last edited by SPJ; 05-11-2006 at 07:49 PM.

  2. #47
    I used to think if people believe in some religions, it is because they have weaker minds about themself.

    Recently studies found that it is determined by your gene. It was reported in Science and Nature, which issue I forgot.

    They somehow found the gene in the people that are spiritual either being the believers or being the preachers.

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    My point is that we may have different settings in our minds, too.

    Some are prone to certain things and some are not.

    drugs or chemicals are only pieces of the puzzels that we call minds or thought processes.

    --

    Last edited by SPJ; 05-11-2006 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #48
    Aside from organic or genetic chemical imbalance one of the causes of depression is the conflict between an individual’s self-concept/worldview and their desires. If my desire or expectation about the world or myself is in conflict with the reality of the two as I perceive them, and I am unable to resolve this apparent conflict, then depression results. In this condition I experience a personal dilemma for which I perceive no solution or way out. This puts me in the condition of “effect” which is the feeling that things are happening to me beyond my ability to control or resolve. I feel powerless to affect an improvement in my condition. One solution is put oneself in a condition of “cause”. That is in a state wherein one is actively implementing a solution. In this condition the individual perceives themselves as in some way able to affect a change for the better. They feel empowered to improve their condition. In this circumstance depression is powerlessness versus powerfulness, problem versus solution, effect versus cause, things happening to me beyond my control versus the ability to change my circumstances for the better. Since these individuals have limited or no insight into their own minds and how it functions they feel lost at sea without an oar. Many people with chronic depression do not possess the tools necessary to identify the source of their condition or implement the therapeutic modalities necessary to improve. These tools must be learned and their implementation practiced to successfully transcend the condition.

    One of the phenomena of the mind is our perspective of life tends to build a certain momentum. The patterns of our worldview and personal self-image are ingrained over time and build a strength or foundation that becomes difficult to overcome. Positive views breed positive conditions, negative views or improperly practiced views breed negative conditions and these views/conditions have a momentum that will seek to perpetuate that state of being. I liken this to pushing a car down the street. If it is my purpose to change the direction of the vehicle (change my worldview, self-concept, life’s condition) I must first move to the front of the car and slow the negative momentum. This is the active determination one makes to change the course of their life. Then I must overcome the static inertia before I can begin to improve which is to move the vehicle in the opposite, “positive” direction. This takes a Herculean effort for most people to accomplish and is very difficult without personal determination coupled with faithful encouragement of those who understand the process. Finally, over time and practice our mind will establish a new more productive or positive momentum that will seek to perpetuate itself as well.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by dw3041
    I have also been witnessed to demonic possession many times, and these weren't only cases of people just screaming and flipping out. Some of these cases included things such as girls speaking in masculine voices and saying things like "she's mine!"("she" as in the host) and sometime even in multiple voices at once. Some of the people I have known have also used demons in warfare against people to create very real effects such as vomiting without the other people even being aware that anyone was doing this to them. There is really no room here for claiming that "they did this to themselves."
    Ummm ... I wasn't really reading much into this thread, but at this one ... ???

    Basically these people must be insane. Say yes to the anti-psychotic drugs and no to the voices in your head (likely caused by too much pot use).

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    I was reading the AVMA journal or American Veterinary Medical Association journal.

    There is an article on depression rate is higher on students in the vet schools across the state on May 15 2006 issue.

    I was only tired when I was in the vet school. I think I was just too busy to think about being depressed.
    There's more women than ever in vet schools and in fact they're the overwhelming majority now, right? Something like 4x or more women are on anti-depressants than men, so it seems like it would make sense that vet schools have a high depression rate, right?

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mat

    The OP said he has seen demons while meditating. Seeing (or 'meeting') things which are not there is not a philosophical/practical meditational problem, this is a form of psychosis.
    I would like to respectfully disagree. I have spoken to both meditation teachers, doctors and psychologists about this topic before and can summarize the results.

    Seeing 'things' in a normal waking state, i.e. hallucinating, can be psychotic if other mental criteria are present, such as anxiety, paranoia or coercive thoughts, i.e. one is unable to function normally.

    Seeing 'things' in a state of sleep is normal and is called 'dreaming'.

    Seeing 'things' or hearing a voice at the boundary between waking and sleeping is common and is not a sign of illness.

    Seeing 'things' in a lucid dream is fairly common and is not a sign of illness.

    Seeing 'things' in a state of deep meditation is common and is not in itself a sign of mental problems, as long as it dissipates after meditation and does not cause problems in ordinary life. If it does cause problems it might still just be a meditation problem and not a sign of mental illness.

    I do however agree that the OP should seek guidance, however a psychiatrist might not be the right place to turn. That depends on the exact situation, something that we don't know about for sure based on his posts. It's very possible that a good meditation teacher can handle it. Meditators have these kinds of experiences sometimes and in many cases it is easily resolved.
    Last edited by Kapten Klutz; 05-12-2006 at 04:20 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapten Klutz
    Seeing 'things' in a state of deep meditation is common and is not in itself a sign of mental problems, as long as it dissipates after meditation and does not cause problems in ordinary life.
    So, in your opinion, are the things you "see" in a state of deep meditation real in the objective sense?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen
    So, in your opinion, are the things you "see" in a state of deep meditation real in the objective sense?
    What is "real"?

    You know, the ancient greeks believed that an idea had as much validity as anything manifest because they knew that all things manifest were originally an idea.

    This in a sense is true and in my opinion, that's some real magic happening.

    for instance, and just to clarify, the idea of the chair you're sitting on was only a thought in a designers head until the materials were processed from matter and made to conform to teh shape of the chair.

    THe chair itself, was at first only a thought.

    Thankfully, we don't expound upong the minutia in our minds in this regards.

    Fear does have a strange way of playing on our minds as do a lot of factors. but these things all come from within and are illusory for as long as they remain unformed in reality. That's what an insane person fails to recognize and a sane person can recognize.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #54
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    Well, David, that was my point that Sci-Fi has been mining these concepts for ages, but by objectively real I mean more than just a figment of the individual's mind. We can argue until the cows come home about whether anything in the world is real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen
    So, in your opinion, are the things you "see" in a state of deep meditation real in the objective sense?
    I wouldn't usually think so. Maybe it's possible that there are angelic beings or something like that — who am I to say it's impossible — but I'm not seeking to meet them if they exist. I was taught to treat anything of that sort that arises as the mind playing tricks on you, to not reject the experience but not to aggrandize it either. I think this is a balanced and sober approach.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson
    THe chair itself, was at first only a thought.
    Yes or if someone holding a tennis racket hits a ball, the ball goes flying thanks to an impulse of the will. Without the body, nothing would have happened, without the mind to steer the body nothing would happen. I can't help but see mind and matter as two sides of the same coin since they influence each other.

  12. #57
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    Everything is matter. lol

    Matter can change, but energy appears as a constant. there is no increase or decrease. Energy is always present in everything in varying quantity. Including your mind.

    afterall, what is a thought by energy moving through neuropathy. Ergo "thought" is matter and energy working together cohesively.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  13. #58
    To sum up: thoughts matter.


  14. #59
    I would not say everything is matter. I would say everything is mind. Without mind to perceive nothing exists to perceive. Matter is used by the mind to perceive matter, but idea is not matter it is idea. Idea requires mind to create and perceive it, but mind does not necessarily require matter to perceive or create idea. Idea is dependant upon mind; mind is the source or idea. Matter is merely a tool utilized by mind to materialize idea.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown
    I would not say everything is matter. I would say everything is mind. Without mind to perceive nothing exists to perceive. Matter is used by the mind to perceive matter, but idea is not matter it is idea. Idea requires mind to create and perceive it, but mind does not necessarily require matter to perceive or create idea. Idea is dependant upon mind; mind is the source or idea. Matter is merely a tool utilized by mind to materialize idea.

    Scott, are you practicing passive nihilism?

    matter exists whether or not we do. example, my grandfather is dead, but the world still exists despite that he no longer percieves it.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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