Zhaobao at Shenwu

[Hulei Boy]

Hello all,

I'm new here. My teacher is Tim Cartmell. I've recently been doing Zhaobao Taiji that Tim learned from Lin Ah Long and Xiong Wei in Taiwan. This particular branch of Zhaobao Taiji is known as Hulei or Thunder style. I like it alot. Very smooth and graceful like Chen style but also wavelike, sudden and snappy like some kung fu styles.

Right now I am struggling just trying to get all the nine joints opened up and flexible with the Zhaobao basic exercises. It is challenging and humbling but also very awesome. I'm sure this art will be a lifelong study.

Just wanted to introduce myself to all the other kung fu geeks.

Robert

[Three Harmonies]

Welcome Robert. This is Jake in NM. I train mainly Xing Yi with Tim, but also some Sun Taiji.
Cheers
Jake

[Hulei Boy]

Hey Jake,

Good to see you again. Yup, we are lucky *******s to be learning from Tim. I think both Xingyi and Taiji are awesome. Funny how the basics of Xingyi like the santishi build up a particular kind of strength in the body and the Taiji basics also develop their own unique kind of strength and suppleness. They both make for a good combination.

I am still stuck wrestling with the basic jibengong drills. Right now I am down with the flu but am looking forward to getting back into it.

I like your quote.

Robert

[Three Harmonies]

You too eh? The basics are a constant reminder that we are merely mortal, at least that is what I have learned in the last 15 years of martial arts!
I have been knocked down with the flu over the last 48 hours as well, and Tim is coming out tomorrow!!!! I hoep I am at least good enough to get tossed on my ass!
Cheers
Jake

[phantom]

Is this the same thunder chen style that Adam Hsu does? thanks in advance.

[chessman71]

Is this the same thunder chen style that Adam Hsu does? thanks in advance.

Close, but not quite the same. The version that Adam Hsu does was mixed with lao jia and doesn't emphasize whipping energy. The version that Tim Cartmell learned came from Xiong Wei and emphasizes the soft whipping energy already mentioned.

I have been researching this style of taiji for my blog and I have several posts on it if anyone is interested. I live in Taipei and the blog is here:
http://chessman71.wordpress.com/

I'm not shamelessly trying to promote my blog, but I am interested in sharing info with anyone who is interested.

Dave C.

[Hulei Boy]

Thanks Dave C.

That is some good info. It's always interesting to research and study rare styles. I have learned alot about Zhaobao/Hulei history from you and Tom. You have some great footage recorded too. Very impressive to watch. Some of the legwork looks similar to the basics I am learning. Those basic exercises are still really a challenge to me but are also very awesome.

Are you also a student of Xiong Wei? Tim was telling me some stories of his Zhaobao Taiji teachers. He said that Lin Ah Long and Xiong Wei were by far the best at push hands. This was no doubt due to their amazing suppleness and strength from their Zhaobao training. Not to mention skilled sensativity that comes from years of push hands training.

kind regards,
Rob

[chessman71]

Hulei boy,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm not a student of Xiong Wei but I know a disciple of his. This disciple has some of the most amazing taiji I have ever seen. As I said on my blog, I literally could not put qinna on this guy. I'm sort of "saving" him for when my Chinese is better. Xiong's students us a lot of very technical terms to decribe their taiji and I'm not really ready for that as far as my Chinese level goes. Be VERY thankful that you can get this from Tim. That saves you a lot of trouble!

Two of my other teachers do the huleijia via Du Yu-ze, so I will have access to it through them as well. Plus, I know a couple of other people that have studied it so I'm relying on all these folks for my info.

You know, you mention push hands and you're right. Xiong's disciple did things that I can't fully explain. I'm a little embarrassed to talk about it because I'm afraid people won't believe me.

If you don't mind my asking, what has been your personal experience with the daoyin exercises?

I found from the class that I took that I'm not really flexible enough to do any of them. I'm on sort of a "pre-dao yin" routine to get me ready for them.

So are you able to do the exercises?

take care,
Dave C.

[Hulei Boy]

Dave C.

Tim showed me all eight exercises but I can only do a couple of them well. Like you said, the basic eight are primarily to develop leg strength and flexibility but my legs have always been very weak. This is one of the reasons I took up this style. However, Tim said that Xiong Wei took up the art when he was 40 and at the time was also very inflexible and now he is in his 70's and is very strong and supple. Right now I am 32 so this gives me some good motivation!

I practice the eight basics daily to get better at them but they still look kind of ugly and sloppy. Each exercise can be taken to a certain degree of difficulty. For example, on the three level horse stance, there is the number of minutes you can hold each level. Also, in the 6th exercise where you go from the bow stance hip circles to the hurdler stretch, you should be able to go back to the bow stance again without using your hands (I can almost do this). I notice in that video clip on your site that shows the group practice, everyone does this motion very well towards the end of the clip. Very impressive to watch.

Take care,
Robert

[chessman71]

Robert,
Thanks for the kind words about my blog. i wasn't sure whether to reply to here or at EF.

I also feel good knowing that Xiong took up this stuff in his 40's and was very inflexible. That does give encouragement. Problem is, everyone in the dance/performance art field is now interested in this form of movement. The exercises are ideal for them, but then that raises the bar for us normal folks. Ballerinas, etc. are already pretty flexible so it's hard to compete with them or even be in the same class for that matter.

Plus, there's the highly advanced physilogocal/philosophical Chinese that gets used to describe this stuff. Combine all that with my stiff hips and I'll be going at these exercises for quite a while!

take care,
Dave C.