what is your view on Chen style TaiChi ?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Good Judo and good Taiji are of common principles..

pudaoking: I hope you're not serious about Judo not being a Martial Art.. it is, regardless of its lineage.. many of our most beneficial inventions were unintended consequences of other concepts.. The chinese invented gunpowder and used it for fire-crackers.. Judo is quite capable as a self-defense strategy..

Be well..

[Water Dragon]

It usually is a wise idea to know what it is you are practicing or doing .

It's usually a wise idea to know what or whom you're talking about as well. You make a lot of assumptions, most of them are wrong.

[pudaoking]

Greetings to you TaichiBob, I'm sorry to say I thoroughly disagree with you that Judo is a martial art. Yes it has been taught by some as if it is a martial art, but just because it has some techniques that you could use in a fight and just because it was invented by Jigoro Kano who himself was a master of Jujutsu doesn't make it any less a sport. Look anywhere on the google search engine under Judo and the people who study it themselves refer to it as a sport. Would you consider a WWF wrestler a real martial artist based on the fact that some of the wrestling techniques could be used by some in combat? How about football. The football players can tackle and take down an opponent, that's considered a fighting technique is that a martial art? Even my favorite sport, Boxing as effective as it can be out on the street, is still considered a sport, not a martial art. Martial arts are called such because they instill a higher learning in the individual for a complete way of life. They contain a philosophy and theories and principals to follow as well as moral and ethical teachings, they also cover as a complete system a path for spiritual enlightenment, improved health and better quality of life. A martial art is a complete system of self defense both in empty hand and weapons. It should cover all types of situations and be prepared to handle them. Judo has martial capabilities in only a few areas, like throws. Not much more, I believe that judo like sumo is geared as a sport only. Again I am only stating my opinion, I am sure there are Judo practioners out there who could hold their own against lots of martial artists, but it is still a sport.

[pudaoking]

Quote by waterdragon:

"It's usually a wise idea to know what or whom you're talking about as well. You make a lot of assumptions, most of them are wrong."

Hi waterdragon, I think I do know what I'm talking about as far as Tajiquan or other chinese martial arts are concerned. I always do thorough research before studying a style I may be interested in, by reading about it's history and liniage, current masters and practioners around the world who teach it as well as reasearching deeply into the styles theories and principals, techniques and applications. As to whom I am talking to or about, your right I don't know who you are or what your background is, you could be a master for all I know with thousands of students worldwide, I am only commenting on what information you have given in your posts. I think what you said regarding Chen style Taijiquan was extemely inncorrect, so I said so. As far as making assumptions which you claim are wrong, elaborate a little so I can understand where I errerd. Maybe your right and I assumed what I said about you not studying chinese martial arts is incorrect, and maybe I was a little harsh in the way I reffered to Judo as being beneath Taijiquan and detrimental to someone studying internal arts, so on that topic I apologize to people that practice that sport, but in regards to what I said about the importance of form and applications I know I am right on that subject. And if you do study traditional chinese martial arts, how can you dismiss form and applications when they are the core and foundation of your training?

[Water Dragon]

The base of Chinese martial arts are the way they develop and use power. The forms are simply one way to practice using that power. Forms are a small part of any 'traditional' school of CMA. They have much more painful things to occupy your time, lol. Right now, I'm coaching this kid who hits like a bulldozer, but he's real tense and tires himself out easily. He's also pretty slow. I have him practicing The Tan Ging Hay from Southern Mantis so he can get some relaxed power. My guys also practice the Chicken Step from Xing Yi to develop some stiffness on the jab. Pretty soon we'll start doing a little push hands to develop defense. We practice Muay Thai and MMA.

Remember from your history what Chen was designed for. It was a battle field art at a time when people fought in armor. So was Judo. The 'original' Chen would have been something used as a last ditch effort if you lost your weapon. So was Judo.

My opinion is that the kid would be better off learning the Silk Reeling, and push hands and going to a Judo club if his intention is to learn how to fight. That's simply my personal opinion based on my own experience.

[unkokusai]

It was a battle field art at a time when people fought in armor. So was Judo.

No, Judo was not.

[Water Dragon]

I'm not here to get into a yes-it-is-no-its-not argument.

[unkokusai]

Martial arts are called such because they instill a higher learning in the individual for a complete way of life. They contain a philosophy and theories and principals to follow as well as moral and ethical teachings, they also cover as a complete system a path for spiritual enlightenment, improved health and better quality of life.

This romanticized bull**** is tiresome. Pebble snatching fantasy boys who saw too many Kung-fu episodes on TV.

Besides which, if you understood half the words you used there you'd see that all that junk can be found in just about any endeavor, from Kyudo to boxing, to cooking, fer cryin out loud. Give it a rest.

[mawali]

idea:
a. study yang style for 2 years.
b. study shuaijiao for 3 years

the result is that you will be far ahead of most taiji practitioners.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Chen style classes seem to be the only ones you can count on to have martial applications in them. I have seen no other Taijiquan that is so consistent across the country. Just as Chen usually has fighters Yang style usually doesn't. Worldwide it might be different but here in North America thats the way it seems to me.

I teach Yang style btw.

That's not a valid statement. While there are more Chen stylist who practice the martial aspects of Tai Chi, numerically, there are more Yang Stylists in the world, period. That skews the numbers dramatically. There are just more people practicing Yang Style than Chen, just as there are more people studying Yang than Wu, Wu (Hao Style) Sun style, etc.

There are more people who learn the Cheng Man Ching short forms and then think that they are Tai Chi masters and open a school somewhere saying that they teach Tai Chi.

[greendragon]

I have come to understand the differences. It is in the silk reeling. Chen uses a more spiraling and complex delivery of power with tan tien more like a spinning orb than a point to be moved in a linear direction. Power is brought up into the back and delivered and grounding is maintained through the Gua (inguinal cut). Direction is more from the waist and less from the hips, this is a subtle difference. Overall it DOES seem less relaxed than Yang, but then I am a beginner. ..and I don't like the footwork/stances as well as Yang. Just my report from my cross training experience.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Forgive my poor understandings here, but.. whether it be Chen, Yang, Sun, Wu.. whatever, the choreography is just a tool for educating the student.. Indeed, many "teachers" out there never got to any real depth of learning, they learned to dance the family dance.. There is as much combat effectiveness in Yang as there is in Chen, if you find the right teachers.. While the choreography is instrumental in learning, it is only the beginning.. the foundation of Taijiquan..

"Silk-reeling" is not specifically limited to Chen, it benefits all styles.. A well trained and experienced Yang teacher will reveal the internal structure of Yang after a certain level of competence is developed with the basic choreography.. that structure is circular, spiral and linear, it is expansive, not exclusive..

Mastering the choreography is like building a good road.. mastering Taiji is like building a high performance race-car to drive on that road..

At some point, Taiji is "realized".. the labels fade, and style comparisons become mildly amusing.. they are just different paths up the same mountain.. and, the view from the top is the same.. (or so i hear)...

Be well...

[tjqg]

If I'm not mistaken, they openly train boxing and san shou to go with their taiji. If you look at the CMC form the punching and kicking seems pretty limited. Tiffany Chen is one of the few people I've actually seen knock people around in pushands though without resorting to wrestling or brute strength.

people here speak highly about Wcc Chen, Tiffany Chen, i just went to their wevsite to see some pushhand clip, I don't know why those weird wresting called pushhand.

[B-Rad]

Got a link? I've never seen their website.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

people here speak highly about Wcc Chen, Tiffany Chen, i just went to their wevsite to see some pushhand clip, I don't know why those weird wresting called pushhand.

lol.. this is a common comment from people that haven't played at that level.. what you see as weird wrestling is a very nuanced and dynamic Taiji skill-set.. these clips are of matches between people of considerable skill, they are listening, adhering, controlling and expressing in "real-time" and under pressure.. they are moving Taiji skills toward the level where it can be effectively used in highly competitive "full-contact" competitions.. A sad commentary for Taiji is that most people see no Taiji in the really harsh environments of "reality" fight games, from which they form the notion that Taiji isn't that good as a martial art.. Tiffany, Josh, the Childresses, Dan, Chris.. these are people that are willing to take the risks and raise the bar..

Be well...