How effective are Martial Arts in Self Defence

[Crushing Fist]

what I've been told...




It's better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6





the real question is how will we defend ourselves from the road warrior zombies?




on the topic of the thread:

every advantage you can get helps

MA are one of those advantages

but only if you train consistantly and realistically

a false sense of security and/or superiority can be a serious liability.

[dwid]

what I've been told...




It's better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6





the real question is how will we defend ourselves from the road warrior zombies?




on the topic of the thread:

every advantage you can get helps

MA are one of those advantages

but only if you train consistantly and realistically

a false sense of security and/or superiority can be a serious liability.

Thanks Crushing Fist. I'm glad that at least two of us on KFO can at least keep it real and always bring it back to the apocalyptic duo of road warrior/zombies.

We must be forever vigilant against this threat. This is why we train.

Regarding the serious portion of your post, you managed to say what I've been trying to say in fewer words and perhaps more clearly. The judged by 12, carried by 6 thing is something my last bagua instructor used to quote frequently. It bears repeating.

[masterblaster12]

I had a carry conceal Permit in the USA when I lived in Texas its no big deal to obtain one. Anyway Iam enclosing a link with all the info.
Remember to say you feared for your life those are they key words in court.
Link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_(USA)

[Kapten Klutz]

The judged by 12, carried by 6 thing is something my last bagua instructor used to quote frequently. It bears repeating.

On the other hand judged by 12 can really suck if it means time in a state prison. Very, very bad result. I'd rather lose my wallet and cell and get smacked around than end up in a heIIhole like that.

[Banjos_dad]

I truly believe the best defence is a Gun

invariably when people tell me this, and i ask what kind if gun they are carrying at that moment...lol you all know the rest err, well uh, it's in my car, i didn't bring it today, etc....

that's about all the time i can rationalize wasting on this baiting troll crap.
i think if you had a gun people would just take it away from you and perhaps jam it up your pooper... lol. whereas if you learned kung fu, no one could take it away and kick your own butt with it lmao.

[Crushing Fist]

On the other hand judged by 12 can really suck if it means time in a state prison. Very, very bad result. I'd rather lose my wallet and cell and get smacked around than end up in a heIIhole like that.

but would you rather be dead?

[Hard Fists]

People like to talk trash about Taekwondo (sp) all the time, but many of them don't know what they are talking about. I never trained it, but there is a school that many of my friends attended and it was no joke. I think that when people talk trash they must be referring to the mcdojo aspect of Korean martial arts. In fact, some of the toughest guys I knew back then were training at Master Choi's school in DC. I seem to remember them kicking a lot of a$$. A couple of years ago I had a discussion with a budy that trains at that school and we broke into some of the basics down-his technique seemed pretty solid...The guy can fight, and so can his Master. People used to challenge Master Choi a lot---and get beat a lot in the 80s. People keep trying to classify one art as more deadly or better than another....bottom line: if you can fight, you can fight. If you train to fight in different senarios, you'll be better at fighting in those senarios. If all you do is hit pads and yell in class, then you may get your a$$ kicked before you take your training seriously. I've seen people do some pretty amazing things from lots of different arts. One just needs to have the ability to adjust, adapt, train, and implement knowledge.

[tjwingchun]

Well what a bag of worms!

Coming from the UK, if I carry a gun, knife or weapon I get locked up, simple fact, so I do not have the luxury or option or of carrying anything apart from what is naturally part of my body.

Cannot argue with the 5 statements that need discussion:-

1 You dont know if Opponent is stronger than you.
2 You dont know if he is Armed
3 You dont know his pain tolerance
4 You dont know if he is on Drugs like steriods = Steriod Rage, PCP = No Pain etc.
5 He may be a Total Psychopath

Essentially we never know the level of violence that we are going to be faced with until it happens, unless you are a NHB fighter who not only knows weeks ahead that they are having a fight, they know the size, ability and some of the time the techniques the opponent prefers, and then when the fight starts they are 20 feet apart! The luxury, in my experience most street fight start from about 2 feet.

There has been alot of commonsense talked and though some have opposing ideological attitudes the general thread seems to be reality and practicality, as far as the law is concerned a few years ago a ex-army lad came to my door when I was out and threatened to put a gun to the baby-sitters boyfriend, infront of my girlfriends 8 year old daughter, not once but twice in the same evening, the police were called but nothing was done. I went to see him to ask him what he thought he was doing petrifying a young girl, he refused to open the door, I opened it, and when I went to talk to him he went for me but 3-4 slaps left him crying like the failed bully always does. I was done for assault and in court they took my 30+ years martial arts experience into account, knowing what I could have done but did not, and was fined £50.

The moral of the tale is everybody is allowed reasonable use of force, but if you are jumping up and down on their heads when the police turn up expect the book thrown at you.

Take care out there and keep smiling lol.

Trevor

[Mr Punch]

what I've been told...




It's better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6

It's better to be carried by six than be Big Bubba's b**ch!

People throw around this quote like they've thought about what it would mean to even spend one year in a maximum security prison. Only one year...?! I agree with the sentiment, but I7d rather adopt a more sensible motto, like something about not being there...

the real question is how will we defend ourselves from the road warrior zombies?

This kind of nonsense has no business on a serious thread like this... 'sides we could just leave it to our preprogrammed zombie ninja pirate kong robot.

on the topic of the thread:

every advantage you can get helps

MA are one of those advantages

but only if you train consistantly and realistically

a false sense of security and/or superiority can be a serious liability.

Excellently put.

Hard Fists is right about some TKD.

TJWC is right about the laws in many places... and the responsibility we have to face.

I was done for assault and in court they took my 30+ years martial arts experience into account, knowing what I could have done but did not

Unfortunately they didn't know you had 30+ years experience in wing chun, so they didn't know 3-4 slaps was about the maximum limit of your skills...!

Joking!

[SevenStar]

I'm not all that certain that a gun represents the best defensive value for most self-defense situations. In cases where your opponent isn't threatening lethal force i.e. armed with a knife or gun, then YOUR weapon represents a serious liability.

For example, if you draw your weapon against an unarmed assailant and the moron dosen't back down (seen this happen in my youth), what the hell do you do? Shoot him? What if you shoot him accidentally? It's happened before. Either way, that's murder in the eyes of any court. And if he starts fighting you and you haven't drawn your weapon, how much harder is it to fight him while keeping him from taking your gun? Not to mention what happens if he succeeds in grabbing it.

The only time you'd want your gun IMO, is if your opponent has one. In which case you're pretty screwed anyway because you stand a very good chance of being killed or accidentally killing a bystander should you choose to deploy your weapon rather than just meet his demands.

Just playing devil's advocate...

another thing to think about is the time it takes to draw the gun. I saw a study somewhere that read to the effect of, from 20 feet or less, knife vs gun, the knife will usually win if the gun isn't already drawn. given that statistic, I would guess that it's the same for gun vs ASP. coincidentally, over the weekend, a guy claimed to have a gun (he didn't), but he was grabbed by someone from behind and I had drawn my baton before he even finished pulling his hand from under his shirt. Had I hit him, he woulda been KOed before he was even close to drawing his gun - I was within 20 feet of him, and it's a 21' extendable baton.

[Pork Chop]

I was within 20 feet of him, and it's a 21' extendable baton.

21 foot extendable baton?
Mine's only a foot long.

[Iron_Fisted_TKD]

As for Tae Kwon Do ... well I wish you luck in a Street encounter.

Ok... you obviously don't know anything about tae Kwon Do. Please do not talk about martial arts that you do not know about.

Tae Kwon Do is actually one of the best martial arts for street defense. Tae Kwon Do uses mainly kicks (of course) and in street fighting that doesn't change. Against in-experienced fighters, High kicks really do own. They get kicked in the chest and head, while trying to attack you with their fists. It is actually really amusing. Against experienced/professional fighters, low kicks must be used. Saying that Tae Kwon Do is not good for street fighting obviously comes from the mouth of someone who has not had their femur/ankle/knee snapped in half by a low side/front/round kick.

Idiot. Feet hit harder, and have more range than any other weapon in the arsenal of the human body.

I am (by no means) putting tae Kwon Do above any other martial art. I am, however, saying that Tae Kwon Do is very appropriate for street self defense. Just because a few stupid ATA Tae Kwon Do black-belts suck balls, does not mean that more serious Tae Kwon Do people also suck balls.

Observe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdzG...tornado%20kick
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/..._Knockout.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8vv...0wtf%20olympic
Little guy takes down a big guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMp13...ae%20kwon%20do
TKD VS Kyokushin Karate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkHuX...0wtf%20olympic

Yeah so... shut the f!ck up because I have won street fights against people who use Wing Chun and Muy Thai. In my opinion, Wing Chun focuses too much on punching and not enough on kicking, Tae Kwon Do being the opposite.. Usually focusing too much on kicking, and not enough on punching. I take street grappling classes and some training similar to that should be used in correlation with TKD.

[SevenStar]

street grappling? explain.

[PangQuan]

they hold thier classes in an alley covered in broken glass and nails.

[Iron_Fisted_TKD]

street grappling? explain.

I didn't pick the name but that is what it is called... It is taught by some gung-ho ex-navy seal sniper 7th Dan Hapkido instructor (ITA certification) who teaches realistic hapkido for the "street"? lol... Idk what he was thinking when he named it, but it is a very good class (only 50 bucks a month too!!) that teaches many ways to deal with people that "hug" you when you start pounding their @ss with kicks and punches.

To be quite honest, Tae Kwon Do hardly touches on what to do if someone really starts grappling with you. They teach basic grab escapes, but nothing past the basic "twist your wrist towards their thumb" escape techniques.

Tae Kwon Do also teaches to follow up with a strike after a counter ALWAYS. I would prefer to quickly snap an arm than to punch them in the face... and believe me, I LOVE punching

Again as for the name of the class, I think it is all marketing... I guess people will like to hear the words "street grappling" rather than "modernized hapkido"