Real Tai Chi?

[neilhytholt]

Very well said Bob. That's the best answer to the fighting question that I have ever read. Must be all that Florida sunshine that maintains sanity.

Taiji is a fighting martial art.

It is not a health dance. 90%+ of the teachers DO NOT fight with tai chi. If you start calling around tai chi places, 90+% of them teach health dance, not martial art.

Good grief, get with it, people. Bob is basically advocating wushu for non-fighting.

superior health enhancing qualities, advanced meditative skills, beneficial philosophical perspectives and general flexibility improvements just to name a few..

Why not just do Hatha Yoga, Bob?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

unkokusai:

How did you come up with that %? And wouldn't "Hippy" imply someone uninterested in learning the combat applications anyway?

The % is based on personal experience.. and, you don't know too much about hippies ..
This "Hippie" and many like me are prepared for whatever happens, we simply choose to keep our potentials hidden until needed.. I favor the quote, "better to a warrior in the garden, than a gardener in the war".. noting that "better" is in the garden, not waging war (i refuse to comment on the characteristics of my garden) .. Be prepared, not eager...

Be well..

PS: Humble thanks for the support <bows>...

[neilhytholt]

Greetings..

unkokusai:
The % is based on personal experience.. and, you don't know too much about hippies ..
This "Hippie" and many like me are prepared for whatever happens, we simply choose to keep our potentials hidden until needed.. I favor the quote, "better to a warrior in the garden, than a gardener in the war".. noting that "better" is in the garden, not waging war (i refuse to comment on the characteristics of my garden) .. Be prepared, not eager...

Be well..

PS: Humble thanks for the support <bows>...

This is basically the reason I do not study tai chi. Is because all the teachers I run into are like this guy.

Why, oh, why are the fighting taiji teachers so few or far between?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

neilhytholt: tsk, tsk, Neil.. drag your happy butt down here, and see how the Yoga, Wushu advocates play... Knowledge is born of experience, Neil.. looks like you could use the "experience" to improve your knowledge.. runnin' your mouth to people you don't even know indicates a lack of knowledge, knowledge of potential consequence.. i assure you that i am a big advocate of Taiji combat arts.. and, i would be all too happy to offer you a free class or two.. i am not so narrowly focused that i come off sounding, well, like you.. abrasive, contentious smug, and.. oh yeah, full of it.... Lighten-up, you're gonna burn out at this rate.. or, someone will burn you down..

Be well...

[neilhytholt]

Greetings..

neilhytholt: tsk, tsk, Neil.. drag your happy butt down here, and see how the Yoga, Wushu advocates play... Knowledge is born of experience, Neil.. looks like you could use the "experience" to improve your knowledge.. runnin' your mouth to people you don't even know indicates a lack of knowledge, knowledge of potential consequence.. i assure you that i am a big advocate of Taiji combat arts.. and, i would be all too happy to offer you a free class or two.. i am not so narrowly focused that i come off sounding, well, like you.. abrasive, contentious smug, and.. oh yeah, full of it.... Lighten-up, you're gonna burn out at this rate.. or, someone will burn you down..

Be well...

Thanks for the offer. You're equally egotistical, just not as abrasive. But all this hippies taiji IMHO is just sickening. The Communists don't run the USA. You don't have to pretend to be doing dancing.

I went through the main taiji forms again, and IMHo they are inferior to basic long-fist. They don't have all the applications of basic long-fist.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I went through the main taiji forms again, and IMHo they are inferior to basic long-fist. They don't have all the applications of basic long-fist.

That, Neil, indicates your lack of experience and knowledge of combat..

Thanks for the offer. You're equally egotistical, just not as abrasive. But all this hippies taiji IMHO is just sickening. The Communists don't run the USA. You don't have to pretend to be doing dancing.

Communists? WTF? I don't "pretend" to do anything... i do it, or don't.. my history is verifiable, Neil, you're barking up the wrong tree.

And, if you're getting sick, try the "morning after pill", it suits your condition...

Be well.....

[neilhytholt]

Greetings..

That, Neil, indicates your lack of experience and knowledge of combat..
Communists? WTF? I don't "pretend" to do anything... i do it, or don't.. my history is verifiable, Neil, you're barking up the wrong tree.

And, if you're getting sick, try the "morning after pill", it suits your condition...

Be well.....

No, seriously, modern taiji doesn't have all the moves, kicks, flips, everything that longfist does. It was designed that way so that the Imperial palace people in robes could fight with it. It is also well documented that YLC didn't want to teach the Manchus his fighting art, so he watered it down as well.

I mean, take the Yang long form. It's so redundant you can shorten it down without losing anything.

As for the Chen lineages, that's probably closer to real fighting, but those are even more rare than the Yang people.

But call me ignorant or whatever.

[unkokusai]

Greetings..

unkokusai:
The % is based on personal experience.. and, you don't know too much about hippies
This "Hippie" and many like me are prepared for whatever happens, we simply choose to keep our potentials hidden until needed.. I favor the quote, "better to a warrior in the garden, than a gardener in the war".. noting that "better" is in the garden, not waging war (i refuse to comment on the characteristics of my garden) .. Be prepared, not eager......

So, do you mean that these 'Hippies' (according to your revised definition of the term) can beat 90% of the MA fighters you know or that all of your super-hippies can beat 90% of the MA fighters in the world?

[neilhytholt]

IMHO that hippie, baby boomer generation was terrible and pitifully weak compared to the one before. Look what they're doing with the country now that they're in office. It's a total disaster.

But just wait until the next one (ours) comes into power. Then you better hope you're dead or off the planet, because there will be a total meltdown.

[imperialtaichi]

I can assure you that i know several "hippies" that can hand 90% of MA fighters their butts on a platter.. I am an old Hippie and it is BS to assume that it is the "hippie-types" ruining Taiji. It is a broad range of unfocused MA socialites that want to be seen as Martial Artists, not just "hippies"..

Well said Bob. Of course when I said "hippies" I don't mean you....

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi neilhytholt,

The following quote is from lkfdmc’s Chan Tai San thread. It is post #147.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...=chan+tai+shan

Reviewing the thread, I noticed a question about Chan Tai san and Xing Yi people....

He knew quite a lot, he got around obviously, but the best story in relation to Chan Tai San and Xing Yi is this one...

For the overseas community, Toisan county prints a sort of yearly almanac of things that happened "back home"... How or why Sifu Chan got a hold of an old copy from 1954 I have no idea, but into the school he walks one day with it...

He shows us the section on sports and physical culture... there is the 1954 Canton Province free sparring championship results...

We note that our si-bak (older uncle) Lei Fei San was #2 and Chan Tai San was #3... so we ask who number 1 was and what happened....

Sifu Chan got stopped by number 1, who then fought Lei Fei San in the finals and also beat him. The fact the guy beat BOTH Chan Tai San and Lei Fei San made us darn curious... what style did he do?

Xing Yi, Sifu Chan said....

Well, how did he fight? We of course wanted to know...

Sifu didn't get into much detail, he said the guy told them (both him and Lei Fei san) that he only did 12 techniques EVER, just drilled the same ones over and over....

Sifu Chan then said, basically, whatever he did, I can tell you one thing, he hit HARD....

You will note that Xing Yi practitioner only trained 12 techniques EVER! The founder of Aikido Morihei Ueshiba taught it is better to know a few techniques well.

You don’t really know much about the MA, especially Tai Chi. We can all see Tai Chi doesn’t meet up with your expectations and the tone of your recent posts leads one to conclude you are merely a troll seeking attention. Who cares if Tai Chi practitioners can fight or not. It is up to the students and instructors to train according to THEIR goals not YOUR goals. If they want to fight they will, if they want to exercise that is fine for them too. Since you want to learn real fighting Tai Chi try applying yourself to learning it first and then applying it to fighting and I don’t mean training for a few years. Dedicate yourself to it for 10 years or so and then you may have the experience to properly evaluate what you have learned. If it takes too long for you to get to the “good stuff” the problem may be your attitude not the ART. You are certainly showing us how bad your attitude is. I wouldn’t train a person with your bad attitude. Try changing your attitude and ask questions appropriately. Go to train with TaiChiBob; he offered you some free instruction. All you want to do is complain and insult others without actually making an effort! No wonder you can’t find what you are looking for, you aren’t doing anything productive to find it. If you can’t find an instructor that teaches what you want to learn, that is a problem of your own creation. Your poor attitude is most likely your hindrance. If you attitude is this poor on the boards I wonder what type of poor attitude you project in person. Others seem to be able to find what they are looking for, but in the entire universe you are the only one who is refused what they want? As long as you perceive your glass as half empty you doom yourself to a life of disappointment.

[neilhytholt]

You are certainly showing us how bad your attitude is. I wouldn’t train a person with your bad attitude. Try changing your attitude and ask questions appropriately. Go to train with TaiChiBob; he offered you some free instruction. All you want to do is complain and insult others without actually making an effort! No wonder you can’t find what you are looking for, you aren’t doing anything productive to find it. If you can’t find an instructor that teaches what you want to learn, that is a problem of your own creation. Your poor attitude is most likely your hindrance. If you attitude is this poor on the boards I wonder what type of poor attitude you project in person. Others seem to be able to find what they are looking for, but in the entire universe you are the only one who is refused what they want? As long as you perceive your glass as half empty you doom yourself to a life of disappointment.

I'm not really looking for a fighting tai chi instructor. I am looking for one, meaning, I am looking for evidence of one.

You seem to think I'm trolling when I say that IMHO that tai chi is nothing but long fist + push-hands.

I don't idly say this. Since another poster on here pointed out that long-fist, especially Plum-Flower Fist which is considered long-fist, has push-hand techniques, I did some research. I also found this article here.

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/ta...ngmanuals.html

I also found other articles that say that 'tai chi' as it was called, wasn't called that prior to the mid 1850s. I have footage of the so-called '13 form', the supposed original form, and it looks nothing like what Chen is passing on.

Even if you believe the stories of Zhang San Feng creating tai chi, and somehow after 600 years or something it passed to the Chen village (and where is the evidence of this? I haven't found anything solid at all), it is said he took -- what style before? Shaolin.

So I don't idly say that it IMHO it is just long-fist + push-hands. You might think it is trolling, but it is not trolling.

[B-Rad]

I don't idly say this. Since another poster on here pointed out that long-fist, especially Plum-Flower Fist which is considered long-fist, has push-hand techniques, I did some research.

If you're refering to what we were talking before (I'm the poster formerly known as "Brad") I meant that plum flower fist used silk reeling, not push hands. Of course they might do that too... wouldn't be the first non taiji style to have some kind of pushands training, but I'm not sure.

[B-Rad]

I have footage of the so-called '13 form', the supposed original form, and it looks nothing like what Chen is passing on.

There's lots of "original 13 for Zhang San Feng taiji quan" forms out there

[chud]

This is basically the reason I do not study tai chi. Is because all the teachers I run into are like this guy.

Why, oh, why are the fighting taiji teachers so few or far between?

It is true that there are not a lot, at least not in comparison to the number who do it as dance or health exercise, but there are martial Tai Chi guys out there. Go to Taiji Legacy and check it out sometime. Or ask around on here and find someone reputable in your area. They're out there. I had to go through two bad teachers before I got to a good one, but I did find it.